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Re: new Oakmont bug, this one is serious

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Sat, Jun 26 2010 9:04 AM

  YankeeJim:

  VanHalenLover:

  I don't care if you want to defend wgt, and if you are having no issues, you rightly should YJ - but don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message.

   

  No shots fired there, not even across the bow.  Opinions are fine but having that index finger pointed like a sword isn't.

  Apologies to you Mr.VHL King-I didn't realize you had taken up the cause.

  Let me remind you on your initial post on this thread, YJ, and then you can think again about whether you fired across the bow or not.

  YankeeJim:

  Heh-Almost as if you're bored and want to cause a fuss. Typical.

  And again, if you have anything to refute constructively, don't  hesitate. Seems we are all looking for an end to these anomalies, and the more constructive info that gets shared, the better we will all be. I'll apologize if my sarcastic tone in the OP was a bit too much for you to handle, but if nothing els,e maybe you now understand a bit more about how a lot of others feel about Oakmont - it's just too much. So much, that it has taken the enjoyment of this site to an all time low. Not sure about you, but if I had customers giving me that type of feedback in my business, I'd sure as hell be listening.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Jun 26 2010 9:39 AM

  Speak for yourself, VHL. My OP here was spot on and I'll tell you why. You have just acquired the most expensive, demanding clubset this site has to offer. You have a slow as molasses 3 wood and very fast meter wedges (three different meters to complain about!) On top of that you have a whole 81 ranked rounds and one zillion screams about every possible thing that could be wrong about this game. Your OP was nothing more than a dare to respond, like you had nothing better to do but stir things up. That, my friend, is what I perceive as typical.

  By my reasoning it appears to me that you haven't applied yourself yet are supposedly speaking for anybody that can't score at Oakmont. It's not hard, it's bug ridden.It should be reprogrammed. Reprogrammed?? You can't handle it so you jump on the forum and pick it apart. That was my very first impression of your original post. My response simply verbalized an obvious truth.

  I have absolutely zero truck with you as VHL.  I just think you need to try to get good at this game instead of constantly opening up topics that ultimately turn into a complaint-fest. That's what I think, take it for whatever it is or isn't worth. 

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Sat, Jun 26 2010 11:08 AM

  Finally something we can discuss, YJ, good effort.

  YankeeJim:

  Speak for yourself, VHL. My OP here was spot on and I'll tell you why. You have just acquired the most expensive, demanding clubset this site has to offer. You have a slow as molasses 3 wood and very fast meter wedges (three different meters to complain about!) On top of that you have a whole 81 ranked rounds and one zillion screams about every possible thing that could be wrong about this game. Your OP was nothing more than a dare to respond, like you had nothing better to do but stir things up. That, my friend, is what I perceive as typical.

  Good recovery, but if you can tell me how this (Your EXACT OP, by the way):

  YankeeJim:

  Heh-Almost as if you're bored and want to cause a fuss. Typical.

  Would have given me any indication that you were questioning my clubs, it would be a bit easier to swallow. It didn't, and it was an attack directed towards me, plain and simple. I'm over it, and understand that's just who you are.

  On the club level, you will see that I have not questioned the club characteristics one iota. I have voiced numerous concerns about changes in equipment since Oakmont was rolled out, as well as numerous other oddities, but have never voiced an opinion about the meter speed of any of my clubs. Quite the contrary, in fact. I am very comfortable with the clubs I have now, and in the past, and make adjustments as needed. I have also been on WGT's side about meter stutter arguments, and experience has shown me that the MAJORITY of it is on the users end. What I do squabble about is the programming which forces shot deviations, even when a perfect set up and click is executed. Look back at the wind example for a refresher, if you need.

  YankeeJim:

  By my reasoning it appears to me that you haven't applied yourself yet are supposedly speaking for anybody that can't score at Oakmont. It's not hard, it's bug ridden.It should be reprogrammed. Reprogrammed?? You can't handle it so you jump on the forum and pick it apart. That was my very first impression of your original post. My response simply verbalized an obvious truth.

  It may appear this way, as the current methodology of the leagues I am involved in include a large percentage of practice rounds. I have shot very few ranked rounds that are recorded and visible within my WGT stats, so I can understand your perception that I need to practice and apply myself, but I assure you nothing is farther from the truth.

  YankeeJim:

  I have absolutely zero truck with you as VHL.

  As opposed to e the student, or the programmer, or the father? What's the point here, YJ?

  YankeeJim:

  I just think you need to try to get good at this game instead of constantly opening up topics that ultimately turn into a complaint-fest. That's what I think, take it for whatever it is or isn't worth. 

  Again, I'm plenty good at this game, at least as good as the programmed deviations will allow me to be. I can't control the complaints that are received on my posts, but if you re-read the OP, you'll see I was concerned about them too. It's open for debate, and if you think there are no issues with the site since Oakmont, feel free to voice your opinions. I'd appreciate if you could do it without the need to make it personal, which you have a history of. Examples can be provided if you desire.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Jun 26 2010 11:33 AM

  VanHalenLover:

  Again, I'm plenty god at this game, at least as good as the programmed deviations will allow me to be.

  OK-see you at the Open.   :-)

   

  /off

• Iceats 346 Posts

  Sat, Jun 26 2010 2:31 PM

  YankeeJim:

  Speak for yourself, VHL. My OP here was spot on and I'll tell you why. You have just acquired the most expensive, demanding clubset this site has to offer. You have a slow as molasses 3 wood and very fast meter wedges (three different meters to complain about!) On top of that you have a whole 81 ranked rounds and one zillion screams about every possible thing that could be wrong about this game. Your OP was nothing more than a dare to respond, like you had nothing better to do but stir things up. That, my friend, is what I perceive as typical.

  YJ, not taking sides and certainly my comments should not be taken as an attack against you, but your response to Van appears to apply to all of us who have supported this thread.  I must ask if you really believe that someone who complains about the issues which have been raised in this thread are just part of a "complaint fest" and not bringing out legitimate concerns and issues ?  Just to set the record straight before you look at my profile, I have played over 1100 ranked rounds ( you less than 600), I play with the Rapture irons and 3 wood and only carry 2 wedges.  Currently, in order to keep things in perspective, I have currently qualified for both the Opens although I am sitting on the cut line for each.  Congrats on your 63 at Oakmont, sorry to see you still trying to qualify on St A. 

  How you can possibly defend this game against anything which has been brought up in this thread is is beyond me.  Instead of attacking someone for starting this thread and all those who have joined it, you migtht try and determine if the complaints are legitimate - they are. Also, I would think as a fellow player you want these items fixed.  Although it appears that you have not commented directly to any of the issues raised, you have only attacked the originator.  You certainly seem to be taking WGT's side on this and since they haven't responded I find it interesting that you would attack another player.  As I recall, your actions are against the WGT guidelines for the forum.

  YankeeJim:

  By my reasoning it appears to me that you haven't applied yourself yet are supposedly speaking for anybody that can't score at Oakmont. It's not hard, it's bug ridden.It should be reprogrammed. Reprogrammed?? You can't handle it so you jump on the forum and pick it apart. That was my very first impression of your original post. My response simply verbalized an obvious truth.

  I don't believe your post was the obvious truth.  Who do you think cares about your first impression of the original post.  If you don't have somethingt constructive to add why did you post a response - that doesn't make any sense other than you were trying to take over the thread and attack the originator.  So far you have only responded to Van, why not to the rest of us?  The obvious truth is that Oakmont has significant issues - it chews up significantly more computer resources when it loads than any of the other courses.  Since it's release there have also been issues with the other courses although none have seemed signifiant to me.  I can "handle it" and your attack is unwarrented and uninvited - you didn't respond to the thread, you attacked the poster, hmmm, why?.  You haven't contributed to the thread except in a negative manner, again why? 

  YankeeJim:

  I have absolutely zero truck with you as VHL.  I just think you need to try to get good at this game instead of constantly opening up topics that ultimately turn into a complaint-fest. That's what I think, take it for whatever it is or isn't worth. 

   

  Again an attack on the individual, address the issues or stay out of it would be my advise but since I am not a forum moderator I have no right or authoirty to suggest such a thing, unlike what it seems you have done.  Have you now turned into one of the forum moderators telling people they shouldn't open threads ?  I would think if WGT had an issue they would address it.

  Feel free to email me, or send me a WGTLS pm, or respond here, but I would desire the preceding methods so we don't continue to keep this thread away from why it was started.

  Ice

   

  Ice

• WGTniv 1,788 Posts

  Sat, Jun 26 2010 3:30 PM

  That's enough for this thread.  We're not discussing issues here anymore, we're arguing about how people's posts could be interpreted as attacks.

  I'm also a little disappointed with the way this thread was handled by a few folks.  If someone wants to post a complaint then let them post it.  If it doesn't concern you then ignore it.  If you can't add anything to the conversation besides chastising the OP then you are welcome to skip right along to the next thread.  Post because you have something to say, not because you have to say something. 

  This thread is now locked because we couldn't keep ourselves from informing everyone else about how people should post in the thread.  I've told you how to post in the thread.  Got something constructive to add?  Add it.  Want to say, "Sorry you're having issues, but I haven't seen anything like that on my end", then say that too because it is constructive.  Leave out the part where we make assumptions about the player making the complaint.  "That doesn't happen to me, so obviously you are a screwed up human being."  That's absolutely the wrong way to handle it and I guess I need to start being a little tougher on posts like that.  Duly noted.

  Now to address the issue at hand:

  It's hard to prove there's a problem with Oakmont when every tester we have has played Oakmont repeatedly and can find no problems other than minor surface map issues (thick fringe, bunker lie in the rough, minimal issues).  We do not experience any more or less meter stutter.  We do not experience wild happenings, prolonged loadings, slowed gameplay or anything that would suggest there is a widespread problem.  If the problem is widespread it would affect our testing group as well and it has not.  I've seen when issues are widespread, when the ball rolls through a hill in the green as if it wasn't there.  I see nothing weird happening in any of my rounds and neither has anyone else.  It's a bit difficult to fix something that we can't readily reproduce at will.  No matter how hard we try, whatever is happening to you just isn't happening to us and that makes it especially difficult to discern if something really is wrong or not.

  It's even harder to find out if there's something wrong when posts like this go up.  "All this stuff happened, but I can't be troubled to help figure out why or even make an attempt to try and explain it."  OK , but I'm not sure what you expect from us then.   It's the equivalent of  posting "FIX IT!".  Fix what?  What are we looking for?  That's your responsibility as BETA testers, to help us find the problems.  If a player cannot be bothered to help us find out what is happening to them then it's likely that nothing will change because we have no idea what we're supposed to be looking for.  It's clearly not obvious from our end, so any help in identifying it would be much appreciated.

  Other things in this thread:

  Andypat:  That's a known issue.  It happens on every course and is not specific to Oakmont.  TheAceFactor's explanation is basically correct.  A disconnected player or similar event will cause that to freeze and that issues lies in the synchronization between the game window and the website itself and has no effect on the course.

  Bug reports are not ignored. That assumption is wholly incorrect. Please see my quoted post earlier in this thread.  Taking that assumption further and using it as a reason to not send bug reports is about as counter-productive as it can get.  If you think you found a problem then submit a bug report through the game itself.  Not sending a bug report just means the problem goes on for that much longer.  For every bug you do not submit you have doomed someone else to the same fate.  Let's get into a "pay it forward" kind of attitude here.

  If you have a problem that takes 15 minutes to explain and can't be done in the time that a bug report allows then send an email to us with as many details as possible.  An email might not contain that critical bug report data, but it's certainly better than nothing and the details you provide may enable us to re-create the situation.  The more details that you can include then the more likely we are to find what's wrong and the faster we can fix it.  That includes screenshots and replays if you can get them.  Without the details that lead up to the error it's like searching for a needle in a haystack.