Forums

Re: Putting elevation (legend greens) guide.

• TheTigerEye 259 Posts

  Fri, Apr 5 2013 12:21 PM

  alosso:

  Interesting thought!

  How would you continue with the results, say 61.5 or 13.5 - do you apply the speed correction then or has it been done before, in those 25%?

  Or, the other way round, would said 61.5 be just too long for a 60 ft putting scale or rather 75% of it?

   

  I use the MAX putter with 10/20/30/40/60/80/100 increments. I also use putterpal so i always can find the exact spot that i need. This guide works perfect for me on any uphill putt between 25-100 feet. 

• borntobesting 9,695 Posts

  Fri, Apr 5 2013 1:28 PM

  alosso:

  Interesting thought!

  How would you continue with the results, say 61.5 or 13.5 - do you apply the speed correction then or has it been done before, in those 25%?

  Or, the other way round, would said 61.5 be just too long for a 60 ft putting scale or rather 75% of it?

  The 25 % that I stated is the speed correction for Legend tourney greens. 30% for champ. 20% for slower tourney.You have to guess on the first hole with tourney whether it is legend or TM

  15% for very fast. No Speed correction for fast. add 2 feet for standard over 5 feet and add 10% for slow.

  I use a combination avatar moves and Putter pal. I also never use a full meter. I use as high a scale as I can. I use the Higher level Max with 10/15/30/45/60/90/120/200 and 300 scales with a female avatar. For the 61.5 foot putt I would use the 300 foot scale at slightly over 10%. And the 13.5 foot putt would be 1 avatar move on the 120 foot scale. The shorter the meter travel the easier it is for me to ding. Much less time to have to watch the meter.

• alosso 21,066 Posts

  Fri, Apr 5 2013 4:05 PM

  Reminder: We are talking Legend greens here.

  Excuse me - it's difficult to follow with different scales.

  Alas, I have a 300 scale, and I'd judge a 61.5 foot putt to be around 15.5%. No comparison to a 120 ft scale.

  From my tables I also have a difficult time to rate the distance with the green speed and add a "raw" elevation correction. OTOH, I see that this might shed a light on the irregularity of my calc, taking the uphill measure 1:1 (too much) and subtracting more rather than too little on downhill putts.

  I'll take care of that and try to figure it out.

  As for practice:

  I have a paper pal installed on my screen frame (0 - 100 %) and I use different distance tables for each scale & green speed. I calculate the distance +- elevation to a number of feet and translate this to meter %% by the tables.

• gr8flbob 592 Posts

  Sat, Apr 6 2013 7:06 AM

  borntobesting:

  In alosso's example he shows right at 20 feet. Which is similar to what my old way would have given me. 19.5. My new way I get 13.5 The old way I would have been well past the new way I get very close. My reasoning was that the elevation does not change it is a constant and should not be used until after the distance has been calculated.

  That is a key concept! From a physics standpoint, the power required to go a linear distance is a function of green speed ('friction'). The correction for change of elevation is a function of gravity acting on the mass of the ball; in WGT-land, it would take a putt of 1 foot power to pop the ball up 1 " in the air, or for the elevation in the OP, a 24 foot putt to pop the ball 2 feet up  - IF you could hit the bottom of the ball, lol. 

  I use the 30% faster rule of thumb for Tourney speed calculation, then plug in an extra 1.5 feet 'safety factor' to be SURE the ball gets past the back of the cup. For uphill putts I might jack  that up to + 2 ft for safety; for downhill putts I'll reduce the safety factor. If it's a down-hiller at Oak or Oly, of more than 1 or 2 ", I'll remove the safety factor entirely.

  TheTigerEye:

  The putt i am about to make is 50ft and 74ft with the elevation added. I now think the putt as being a 74ft flat putt and take my shot that way. I compensate for the legend greenspeed (remove around 25-30%) and hit the ball around 42-45ft on the 50ft meter.

  In TigerEye's OP example, my mental calculation would go: a 50 ft putt uphill 24 ",  50 - 30% = 35 ft ... +24 ft for hill = 59 ft + 2 ' safety factor' = 61 ft. 

  I'll bet I'm closer to the hole, lol

  I note that my result and Borntobe's are nearly identical, though they are arrived at via different methods.

  p.s. to alosso:

   

  alosso:

  As for practice:

  I have a paper pal installed on my screen frame (0 - 100 %) and I use different distance tables for each scale & green speed. I calculate the distance +- elevation to a number of feet and translate this to meter %% by the tables.

  Does your 'paper-pal' look like this? 

  The top-most offset scale is %-age for non-putter shots - it's offset slightly to left and a bit longer, because that's what the game meter does in play. The multiple putter scales are set to read actual distance for STANDARD greens on the various Rossa scales (15, 25, 50, etc.). My mental calculation essentially is a conversion to Standard green power. Having the readout directly in feet saves me the additional '%-of-full scale' calculation. My adjustment factors are the widely known values: -40% for champ, -30% for tourney, -20% for VF, -10% for fast, zero for standard, and +10% for slow greens.

   

• alosso 21,066 Posts

  Sat, Apr 6 2013 8:02 AM

  This:

  

  It is but a paper version of the Putter Pal: 0 - 100 %.

  I used these printable putter scales to create my own with Excel. Thus I don't use the "25%" correction formula, and I have to add the elevation with appropriate factoring to the raw length. Enter this to the table and get a %% for the shot.