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Re: #2 Kiwah

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Jun 21 2014 1:52 PM

  MichaelStroke:

    I guess a free rental weekend is a good time to test it out.  Maybe I'll fall in love with it.

  It doesn't let you get away with some of the stuff you can with the R11, ya gotta ding it. Fortunately it's the same speed so that isn't a huge issue. Miss a few times and you'll see the real issue.  :-)

• BigInigoMontoya 208 Posts

  Sun, Jun 22 2014 8:27 AM

  I'm playing Kiawah from the Master tees as well, but I rarely reach the green (2nd Hole) in 2 strokes. Hell, 99% of the time I don't even attempt to reach the green in 2.  I have pretty good equipment for my level - SLDR driver, 50 Cent G-unit 3wood, and a choice of Rocketbadez or R11 irons.  But all that equipment don't mean jack diddly squat if you are playing the WGT starter ball, and I'd say 85 to 90% of my rounds are with just that.

  However, unlike the OP I don't want to reach this green in 2 strokes. Especially if you are playing to the middle pin, there is SO. MUCH. SLOPE. near the hole that putting is an extreme challenge -- at least it is for a novice like me.  Basically the only LEGITIMATE chance you have at Bird is below the hole and inside of 3 feet.  Even if you manage to clear the bunkers, unless you have the very best equipment in the game, you're rolling a good 20 to 30 feet past the hole on your approach. That is a pretty tricky downhiller, given the amount of break you have to deal with, and its a very difficult (IMHO) 2 putt birdie from that distance on this green.  If you are a consistent wedge player -- sadly, I am not -- then this hole becomes a somewhat legit chance at Bird.  But for me, 99% of the time I'm missing a birdie putt from 8 to 10 feet and tapping in for par.  

• JFidanza 1,676 Posts

  Wed, Oct 15 2014 12:45 AM

  When i play it I find it a challenge as well, it finds the sand or has little stopping power and goes past. The wind has a lot to do with what technique and results I will get.

  I got a lucky bounce w/ the BB3W 97, and I'm not a FBS freak but w/ its med/high traj. I did use about 97% BS.

  I try to calculate the landing, in many cases, that if it can't make the green because of distance or wind, so that it may bounce around the 'fingers' of rough around the sand before the green. I can chip/pitch etc. a shot from there if I'm lucky.

  I don't mind hitting from the sand, and sometimes I may try to hit green left and stop it, but in this case the left-to-right wind was favorable so I went more for a direct approach right to the pin area - the rough or parts just before the green.

  Kia #2 approach to green w/ BB 3W 250 lots of BS

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=4e94424e-831e-4501-9348-a3c0017120b2

  This replay shows a lucky bounce, I likely used a tiny post -ding (after aiming a little more left than needed) because I may get a nice 'surfing' of the 10mph crosswind to help it get there and roll right, more so. But that's just a postulation. 

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Wed, Oct 15 2014 11:11 AM

  JFidanza:

  Kia #2 approach to green w/ BB 3W 250 lots of BS

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=4e94424e-831e-4501-9348-a3c0017120b2

  JF!  What the heck are you doing being 243 yards out off your drive with that wind?  You should be in the second fairway 175yds out!

  

  You would have been down wind on the tee box.   And from the gold tees with top drivers that you have, you being TM at level 98 and all, anything the slightest down wind on the gold tee you can reach the 2nd fairway easily.

  Drive from the gold tees, R1 driver to 2nd fairway

  Its also possible to reach the 2nd fairway from the black tees with a healthy wind at our back.

  Now is a great time to learn to play Kiawah #2 under tournament conditions as its the first hole on Best of Par 5s featured in the Trick or Treat for Unicef unlimited play until the 26th.  But there's always ranked stroke play on BOP5s as well.

  In any other winds, learn to drive to the farthest area left on the 1st fairway as shown here.

  

  With your equipment JF you'll need to choke the driver a bit to avoid overshooting the fairway. From the area shown above you're hitting an iron to the green in 2.  Even if you're drive rolls into the rough its still a birdie chance so no fear.

  When aiming the 2nd shot learn to place the ball short and right of the pin for the straightest putt.  In this area:

  

  Here's a replay 6I from 175 to rt of the pin from the 2nd fairway.

  When aiming the 2nd shot be aware of the parallax caused by a misplaced camera.  I always calculate the wind and direction using the view from the front of the green as its mostly in line with the shot.

  Be aware the putt from right of the pin is more uphill than shown.  Move the aim box past the pin to see what it shows.  Don't leave the eagle putt short!

  Here's a replay of a 10ft putt from right of the pin, aimed dead center of cup and firmly struck.

  If you happen to leave the second shot short of the green but right of the pin in the fairway, its also a fairly straight chip/pitch for eagle.

• JFidanza 1,676 Posts

  Wed, Oct 15 2014 12:01 PM

  andyson:

  You should be in the second fairway 175yds out!

  ok I saw someone do that once, and I guess that sand is surely not OOB before the 2nd FW? So, I'll aim for that when I can. (past that as shown in your replay) 

   

  First attempt in a while, not so bad, I need more practice, but hey

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=51b17b2d-78be-46c1-96c0-a3c6002f6799

   

  TM, yes, just made it yesterday after approx. 11 months on WGT, hit my 2nd HIO using the neon yel  yellow callaways!  

  edit: but if one finds themselves around 240+ out, for whatever reason, you can see my replay and technique I used and the result.     

   

  --

   

  edit

  Latest attempt using Call 37 and 8-10 semi crosswind. Just makes it, bounces out of the sand this time. I have to have more wind, better ball distance, or tweak my aim or spin?

  I try again soon.

  Kia 2 par 5 hits FW barely on 2nd FW

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=23a29b97-fefa-4b72-b4a0-a3c600624f4d

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Thu, Oct 16 2014 7:33 AM

  JFidanza:

  Latest attempt using Call 37 and 8-10 semi crosswind. Just makes it, bounces out of the sand this time. I have to have more wind, better ball distance, or tweak my aim or spin?

  I try again soon.

  Kia 2 par 5 hits FW barely on 2nd FW

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=23a29b97-fefa-4b72-b4a0-a3c600624f4d

  Oh man that was a weak drive! But you got a nice bounce out of the sand. Your BB only carried 286yds and on that path it was at least 8 down wind!

  I don't own the BB driver.  What distances have you mapped with no spin, half bs, full bs?

  Compare camera 1 of my replay above to camera 1 of your replay.  My Med/High trajectory R1 with no more than 3 down wind carried 304.  The BB high trajectory and 8 down wind carried only 286.  Check the shot trajectories.  What do you need to change?

   

  JFidanza:

  edit: but if one finds themselves around 240+ out, for whatever reason, you can see my replay and technique I used and the result.  

  I disagree with that technique because IMO its poor course management bringing that bunker into play.  If you land in the bunker it will be 30-40 or worse and unless your sand game is top notch you're taking birdie out of play and bringing bogie into play.

  With the L97 BB 3W in hand you have better options from 243 with about 3 head wind. You had to choke 20+yds off that club. I rented that during the last free rental weekend and got 248 yds carry with full BS.  Go for the green and try and land it 5 to 7yds short of the pin.

   

• JFidanza 1,676 Posts

  Thu, Oct 16 2014 1:41 PM

  I've tested my R1 vs my BB and the BB always gets a longer hit. (see a small excerpt of my results in a couple of forum threads on the topic)

  I just tried my instead R1 (white) and I dinged it w/ the Call 37

  Kia 2 par 5 hits R1 in the brush, Lost ball.

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=6824e353-0bbf-478d-99ac-a3c6014fdaeb

  Looking at my scorecard stats it's not uncommon for me to attain 100% driving accuracy and (with the BB usually) my longest drives are between 326-335yds.

  When did you make those replays? What tier? 

  Is that the R1 black you're using? People have said that's the longest driver in the game, maybe rivaled by the Nike covert 100.

  I guess if the wind is better I'd try for 2nd FW, But till then...

  I don't mind the risky off green shot, I'm doing pretty good w/ holed approach shots, so I test out both methods and see.

  I'll try that "L97 BB 3W n hand you have better options from 243.." etc. thanks

  How is the OP doing? Same plight it seems, thoughts?

  edit: I switched back to my BB, the distance seems better*

  I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, save for the lip-out on 17 (expected something on that one, which is common)  and the robbed 8 ft. Eagle on 18 w/ the J curve at the end, tiny wind and cant which I thought I adjusted, maybe the Versa would've held that line vs the G. Spider.

  BB driver (287y max rated) went 285 drive into 20mph direct headwind, missed the ding, too, slight pre-ding.

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=624eb402-3a80-4273-8039-a3c6015bf769

  Replay is from this game today 10/16

  

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Thu, Oct 16 2014 5:02 PM

  JF, try and stay focused please.  This is not about the equipment.

  I asked you two questions in my post and you answered neither.

  On your BB driver:  "What distances have you mapped with no spin, half bs, full bs?"

  On the replays:  "Compare camera 1 of my replay above to camera 1 of your replay. ........Check the shot trajectories.  What do you need to change?

  That was a big hint.

  I have to assume, since you didn't reply, you have not mapped your driver distances with different spins and winds.  Its important to know especially in cases like this.

  When comparing my replay vs yours, did you not notice on camera 1 how much lower your trajectory was compared to mine?  Why is that when you have a High Trajectory driver and mine is Med/High trajectory?

  I'm a "show a man how to fish and feed him for life" kinda person.  But since you appear not to have figured out which end of the fishing pole to hold...no offense.....I'll give you a fish.

  Your trajectory tells me you're using none or very little backspin on these drives!  You need to use FULL BACKSPIN on this drive.   Full back gets the ball higher, it stays in the air longer, and the tail wind has more affect on the ball so it maximizes the carry on the drive.  And that's what you need to carry all the junk out there.

  Go try it again using Full Backspin

   

• JFidanza 1,676 Posts

  Thu, Oct 16 2014 6:37 PM

  andyson:

  I asked you two questions in my post and you answered neither.

  On your BB driver:  "What distances have you mapped with no spin, half bs, full bs?"

  On the replays:  "Compare camera 1 of my replay above to camera 1 of your replay. ........Check the shot trajectories.  What do you need to change?

  You're right, I think I added 1/6 TS to change the traj. (bad habit of mine) Maybe on the other one I added 1/3 BS, so I'll change that method when I play it tomorrow or Sat.

   

  JFidanza:

  I've tested my R1 vs my BB and the BB always gets a longer hit. (see a small excerpt of my results in a couple of forum threads on the topic)

  excerpt of my mapping, this only shows a few examples, I map as I play you know...

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/195080/1811416.aspx#1811416

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/195080/1811460.aspx#1811460

   

  Do you aim for any special area, also? I think I've got that down. Did you use 100% BS or like 97% etc etc.

  --

  edit

  oh yeah, that makes a big difference for the approach

  Kia 2 par 5 hits BB driver to 2nd FW thanks andyson

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=e23555ef-8a44-486b-8a37-a3c80050a990

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Fri, Oct 17 2014 8:34 AM

  JFidanza:

  excerpt of my mapping, this only shows a few examples, I map as I play you know...

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/195080/1811416.aspx#1811416

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/195080/1811460.aspx#1811460

  Yeah, kinda like that but with baseline conditions.  You want no head or tail wind, low cross wind, a flat fairway with none or a small change in elevation to the landing area.  You want to record both carry and roll, not just total distance as you did in your examples.  You also want to use a pro-shop ball you are most likely to play.  And record only dinged or near dinged shots.

  A good hole to map clubs is BP #10 with low wind conditions in Practice mode.  Elevation change is only +1 from tee to landing area.  The fairway is basically flat.  Keep reloading the round until you get a nice crosswind directly at either 9 or 3 o'clock.  Use mulligans to repeat the tee shot.  No need to go overboard and do 10 to 20 shots.  I usually average the results of 4 or 5 shots. And I do full and no backspin shots on all clubs.  But its also nice to know where a full top spin driver will land for St. Andrews.

  I use replays to get the carry distance.  (I don't trust myself listening for the thump and catching the shot distance.)

  Yep, this is tedious work and plan to burn up a ball or two because you can also do the same for iron tee shots by changing tee boxes so you can reach the fairway with a short or med. iron.  Knowing the carry off the tee of your irons works wonders for Par 3 scoring.

  Once baseline carry distances are known you can always compensate for elevation and wind. 

  ---------------------------

  I think you've got the aiming down on Kia 2.  Just remember to include whatever tendency you have to miss the ding. (If you tend to miss early, then pick your spot accordingly, etc.)  Its a risk/reward shot so from a course management view you might want to find a comfort zone for when you try it.  Like "I'll go for the 2nd fwy only if I have X amount of down wind."

  I use 100% BS on that tee shot to the 2nd fwy.