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Re: St. Andrews #17 (2nd shot)

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Tue, Jul 8 2014 1:21 PM (8 replies)
  • robstarski
    118 Posts
    Wed, Jul 2 2014 6:45 AM

    Does anybody know how to play this hole?  With the WGT camera layout (which does not seem right) if I aim center green it goes in the left bunker every time (even with little wind).  It seems like if I aim at the street and it just rolls off or goes in the sand next to the street.  Where do you aim on the 2nd shot?  I'm usually hitting a 4 iron in.

  • chrisironsbones
    3,524 Posts
    Wed, Jul 2 2014 11:27 AM

    You can't really tell you where to aim because Its wind dependant or is the pin at back or middle of green?

    If its at back and you might have 14 mph wind at 4 o'clock you need to aim at right edge of green or in fescue because you want ball to land a bit short of the pin between the bunker and the right edge of fairway (if pin is at back) because the way the green slopes if you land there you will get ball to roll with slope down towards pin

    I've shown a replay for you to get rough idea, i usualy play on champ greens so i would have had more of a roll to turn ball towards hole.

    If you have high spin irons like i have, you could attack pin with high spin but only in headwind.

     http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=27388293-dfc8-45a7-9cfc-a35c0130a495

  • fatdan
    3,379 Posts
    Wed, Jul 2 2014 12:08 PM

    Play the hole to par with the back pin and a birdie will come occasionally....

    aiming at the back center of green goes right over or close to the bunker so it is most likely a distance issue and remember...missing left rough, bunker, even over the green w/ back pin is better than being on the front of the green, especially in that swale...your dead there.

  • ApexPC
    3,164 Posts
    Thu, Jul 3 2014 11:12 AM

    The Road Hole (ST. Andrews #17) 2nd shot plays easiest when the wind is from right to left.

    The forward hole placement is much more forgiving than the back hole placement.

    Understanding the contour of the green intended landing area is also paramount.

    For the back hole and a right to left wind i want the ball to land short and right of the pin (towards the road). The ball will break left towards the hole.

    A common mistake I see players make with a second shot from the rough on the Road Hole is taking to much club and not making sure their second shot finishes somewhere other than rough.

  • DaveDwingdale
    1,240 Posts
    Tue, Jul 8 2014 7:08 AM

    Rob,

    CIB shows the right direction to aim, but without his stopping ability you should try to land much shorter, at least 5 yds.  Your predicament is shared by many.  It's a tough hole.

    GL,

    Dave

  • ColbyMoore12
    3 Posts
    Tue, Jul 8 2014 8:46 AM

    I can't stand the cameras on some of the shots!

  • ApexPC
    3,164 Posts
    Tue, Jul 8 2014 9:06 AM

    It's famously one of the toughest par 4's on the planet. The Road Hole.

  • micheldess
    819 Posts
    Tue, Jul 8 2014 10:30 AM

    This hole is more complicate when you are  in the  back of the green,  you need to care of the  horrible bunker.

    Of course this shot is easier when you have  irons with high trajectory  (and good ball help too) since i have that , i don't have  too many problem and always score  birdie or par in my card.

  • JFidanza
    1,676 Posts
    Tue, Jul 8 2014 1:21 PM

    I can see a lot of great advice from the pros, which include

    'use good balls (w/ spin, etc) and clubs w/ high traj.' and with the right calculations you can avoid hazards and drop it by the pin.

    and be aware of the camera views and wind * * etc.

    The more strait-on approach, from fairway right, might be a better shot so that ball (with less spin rating, e.g. starter ball) can roll toward the pin and avoid the bunker left, so I think about keeping my drive landing more FW right.

    * *

    I would like to add to that camera view, min-map and wind direction indicator observation that has always fooled me to some extent, esp. on this hole.

    If I'm not mistaken, The wind direction pointer is relative to the camera shot, (below you can see the aim forward, then see the aim toward the pin)

    Note the mini-map's usual placement on the screen & how it's not congruent w/the aim toward the pin.

    The tilted map inserts (middle) show the wind direction vs. the shot angle clearly. 

     

    Understanding that my guess that the mini map's orientation might be misconstrued by players is a significant consideration, IMO.

    On the right of the figure shows how the map is normally placed on the WGT window, and how the wind direction might be misunderstood. The left mini map is adjusted to the camera angle and is what i think is accurate. Again, see the difference at the bottom.

    This is not such a huge difference but sometimes I see a bigger parallax. I think there is a big change on Pinehurst #5 but I can't recall at this time. 

    edit: see a better example of this parallax on my shot on Merion #15 where the difference was very significant:

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