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Re: Balls and distance

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Mon, Jun 6 2016 8:55 AM (9 replies)
  • cj19
    8 Posts
    Sat, Dec 6 2014 4:26 AM

    Hoping the wisdom of the WGT hive can answer a question for me on balls and distance.  For any one club, does the distance parameter of the ball make a difference?  For example, if my TaylorMade 4 iron says max distance is 205 yards, do I need a ball with distance = 5 to actually hit 205?   What's the difference (if any) if I'm using a ball with distance = 4?

    Thanks

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Sat, Dec 6 2014 7:05 AM

    It's all in the carry of the shot-the distance the ball flies until it hits the ground, not where it winds up. That distance attribute affects this and the only way you're going to know is by trying it yourself.

    Set up a practice round where you can use Mulligans and go to some place like the back 9 of BPB. Get into one of those long fairways and hit. Note the distance you see when you hear the thump of the ball landing. Rehit the shot as many times as you need to to get a good idea of what that club actually carries with a given ball.

     

  • alosso
    21,072 Posts
    Sat, Dec 6 2014 11:41 PM

    I like the idea that ball "distance" zero produces the nominal club distance, and higher numbers add to that distance.

  • ApexPC
    3,164 Posts
    Sun, Dec 7 2014 9:50 AM

    Stated club distances are approximations.

    Which ball you play, ball spin setting, how much and what direction the wind is blowing (if any), full or partial stroke, if you do or don't Ding! (Excellent) the shot (plus club Precision and Forgiveness), the slope (if any) of the balls landing spot, elevation change from hit to landing spot, what the ball lands in - rough, sand, fescue, brush, etc - all effect shot distance.

    Then there is VEM - club Precision and Forgiveness:

    WGTniv:
    Forgiveness shifts the precision circle left or right (and usually short) depending on how much you mishit and what the forgiveness rating of the club is.  Clubs with lesser forgiveness ratings shift the circle left/right more on mishits.

    This is why (especially on low precision clubs) you can mishit slightly right of the mark and have the ball go left instead.  Mishitting right shifts the circle to the right, but part of the circle is still "leftover" on the left side of the flag, so it has the potential to land there.

    WGTniv:
    The game is pretty simple. 

    Precision controls your accuracy.

    Imagine it's like a circle that surrounds the flagstick when you aim at it.  The size of that circle is related to the precision rating.  The higher the rating the smaller the circle.

    Your ball can land anywhere in the circle on a dinged shot (left or right, long or short).

     It will ALWAYS land in the circle on a ding shot, though sometimes it may land in the center of the circle and sometimes it may land on the very outer edge or anywhere in between those two points.  When it lands on the outer edge this is what you guys have come to know as "the beast".

    Was the shot pre-programmed? Does it know you're standing on the 17th hole at Kiawah?

    No, it's just unfortunate timing.

    The result you see is the logical spread dictated by the precision rating of the club over 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 shots taken on the site.  No matter how big or small the sample it's amazingly consistent because it is after all only a simple mathematical formula.

    The shot data is spread out amongst all users, so there will be times when you run into a lot of "edge cases" (aka deviations, aka outside edge of the precision circle) and times where you seemingly can't miss the center (even when you mishit).

     

    This is the ebb and flow of the game and it's always been there.  In the short term you will have "bad" days and "good" days.  In the long term (providing they are using the same clubs) any one player will see the same amount of "edge cases" or "deviations" that the rest of the players do.

     

  • ISH47
    1,963 Posts
    Sun, Dec 7 2014 10:37 AM

    WGTniv:
    In the short term you will have "bad" days and "good" days.

    I can testify to that.. There will be days when it seems like you have no control over the outcome of your shots. Get used to it.

  • FlexibleAsARock
    101 Posts
    Sun, Dec 7 2014 10:56 AM

    where is WGTniv?

    i've never seen a WGT explanation like that before! Amazing

     

    Nevermind, looks like hes gone.

    Get him back !

  • borntobesting
    9,709 Posts
    Sun, Dec 7 2014 11:04 AM

    He was one of the best players and also one of the best if not the best mods.

  • PaulTon
    10,731 Posts
    Sun, Dec 7 2014 11:37 AM

    alosso:

    I like the idea that ball "distance" zero produces the nominal club distance, and higher numbers add to that distance.

    Yeah, that's how I have always thought of it.

     

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Sun, Dec 7 2014 5:28 PM

    FlexibleAsARock:
    i've never seen a WGT explanation like that before! Amazing

    SgtBilko expounded on it,  with graphics.

    FlexibleAsARock:

    Nevermind, looks like hes gone.

    Get him back !

    He retired as a mod but lives on.  ;-)

  • snoops34
    2,694 Posts
    Mon, Jun 6 2016 8:55 AM

    YankeeJim:

    It's all in the carry of the shot-the distance the ball flies until it hits the ground, not where it winds up. That distance attribute affects this and the only way you're going to know is by trying it yourself.

    Set up a practice round where you can use Mulligans and go to some place like the back 9 of BPB. Get into one of those long fairways and hit. Note the distance you see when you hear the thump of the ball landing. Rehit the shot as many times as you need to to get a good idea of what that club actually carries with a given ball.

     

    This is the best explanation I have heard for distance. I recently upgraded to the Nike Fly Pro 97 iron with higher loft; and compared to a lot of clubs, it parachutes out of the sky and drops with less roll. This also depends on the ball and club spin. I did exactly as YankeeJim recommended, used up a half a ball finding the spin/club distance ratios and it paid off big time to know the flight and carry of ball and club matchups. Scores went down immediately, mainly due to getting twice as close to the hole.

    Hats off to YankeeJim

     

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