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Re: Consistent wind direction over 18 holes

• Nils13 426 Posts

  Sun, May 10 2015 11:50 PM

  Hi,

  I don't know if this has been discussed before so I searched for the topic but couldn't find anything.

  Why isn't the wind direction fairly consistent (like in real life) when you play a course?

  I'm currently (as I'm writing this) playing St Andrews in heavy wind and on the first hole I had a cross wind from left to right of about 25 mph. As a consequence I should have a tail wind on the second hole (as this is how they are laid out) but instead I have a dead center head wind so the wind have actually "turned" 180 degrees

  Even the wind speed should be fairly consistent over time (not over each hole)

  Any thoughts?

• Pkay72 229 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2015 12:31 AM

  Wait till you have Ready Go and every Par 5 is a head wind. In a Single play comp Wind should Be the same for everyone. In unlimited play wind Should be consistent But be In the same direction IE northwestly. It is stated that its fair for players as random wind means players can't just set notes for wind and play the course.

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2015 2:47 AM

  The winds are "random" meaning and are not going to be consistent as per the course layout.

  But as sure as little green apples, par 5's usually have a headwind and par 3's a tail wind.

  Also bear in mind that as winds are random, the conditions vary for each player in any competition. So when you get headwinds on St Andys 8 out of nine holes, someone might get all tailwinds. 

  So like the undulations in the fairways, the playing field is not level.

• Nils13 426 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2015 9:00 AM

  Yes, well this make competition a little bit difficult

  What does it take for WGT to consider to have at least the wind direction consistent for each player over 18 holes.

  It can still be "random" for each player but once a player start his/hers game the direction should be the same over all 18 holes

  When it come to fairway undulation a player can choose distance and direction to avoid the most difficult parts of the fairway

  This is just a product suggestion for WGT

• ApexPC 3,164 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2015 9:34 AM

  As alanti pointed out, in a real tournament wind speed and direction is not the same for all players, and can change quite a bit in the hours it takes a player to play an 18 hole round.

  Players with an early tee time often have conditions different from the players that have a later tee time.

  In other words, your suggestion would make WGT less realistic.

• JFidanza 1,676 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2015 11:56 AM

  Nils13:

  Hi,

   

  Why isn't the wind direction fairly consistent (like in real life) when you play a course?

  I'm currently (as I'm writing this) playing St Andrews in heavy wind and on the first hole I had a cross wind from left to right of about 25 mph. As a consequence I should have a tail wind on the second hole (as this is how they are laid out) but instead I have a dead center head wind so the wind have actually "turned" 180 degrees

  Even the wind speed should be fairly consistent over time (not over each hole)

  Any thoughts?

   

  This kind of thing is a function of Jack Nicklaus Course Design. I've been playing/twitching that for a while. I have made a few courses (incl. Pinehurst 2 and my own par 3 course) and when you set the general wind for the course it gives you the basic compass points & strength. (this can be changed later) 

  What I should have done when I re-created Pinehurst was to look at the actual overhead map* because when you choose a plot and lay out the holes (in Jack's game) you can make it 'realistic' as the wind will blow across the holes in a global direction. (as you have mentioned)  

  What I did was lay out PH's holes in random directions, not considering the wind setting.

   

  As inferred, I don't think that's how the wind is rendered in this game.

  Granted, actual winds may change with different conditions e.g. sunlight and clouds, thermals, fronts, gusts, season change, jet stream etc., whatever I'm just pointing out the function of Jack's game works kind of like how you were suggesting.

   

  *

  thread showing overhead of PH

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/309805/2202290.aspx

   

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2015 1:56 PM

  Nils13:

  What does it take for WGT to consider to have at least the wind direction consistent for each player over 18 holes.

  I hear you Nils but it will not change, and Apex has a very valid point regarding wind strength differences for a player teeing off at 08:00 and another teeing off at 13:00. Then we may also have rain to contend with or lightening fast greens after the sun and wind has quickened them up.

  But WGT has said (I think) that this could lead to others forewarning friends of the exact wind direction, thus having a slight advantage. Or multi accounters that will have several attempts knowing the exact conditions.

  And in an unlimited event, one could bang away until you know you will be no further than a few feet away.

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2015 2:58 PM

  This topic has been discussed many times before and I agree it is unlikely to change. Suggestions have been made where winds per player are not identical, but are at least in the same favorable/unfavorable ballpark.  So when players compare notes, both had downwind on the same hole but one had 8 and the other had 10 down wind, and maybe one had their wind at 11 and the other at 1.30.  Similar, not the same or identical.  Although I think it would also work with consistent wind directions with less variance in direction but still have variance in speed.  It would go a long way to level the playing field.

  Unlimited tournaments could do the same, with each attempt varying direction and speed within the fav/unfav boundaries. So players don't get identical winds on each attempt.

  Real life tournaments do try and minimize the differences in conditions across the field to the best of their ability.  The first two days players alternate between morning and afternoon tee times.  The third day the field is cut down and the whole field is off in roughly 5 hours.  Yeah, some luck is involved since weather can change quickly.

  But on the final round, those players in contention with a good chance to win, say the top 10 players all tee off within an hour of each other.  So they all pretty much are on the course under the same conditions.  Vastly different than what WGT has today.

   

• alosso 21,070 Posts

  Mon, May 11 2015 10:43 PM

  +1

  I like the design of Brora, Scotland, which is classic links course by James Braid. It has four Par3s facing in four almost rectangular directions.

  (and sheep fences around the greens, and a local rule concerning "animal droppings" - sweet countryside)