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Re: Live Series 2023 Season Changes/Updates

• Yiannis1970 3,303 Posts

  Thu, Sep 15 2022 10:02 AM

  WGTNico:

   Also, yes that pro player Discord does exist and only has players that have participated in live events in the past, and even then there was little discussion about these changes outside of them liking the changes.

   

  What exactly is that? Can you explain?

  I have participated in many live series finals and never received an invite, a pm or know anything about.

   

• WGTNico 645 Posts

  Thu, Sep 15 2022 10:46 AM

  I invited you through Discord message when I had started it back in March, but you never joined. It's a Discord with many of the players that have participated in live events. It's really not that active anymore. Will happily send you another invite if you would like. I never once hid its existence.

  Yiannis1970:

  What exactly is that? Can you explain?

  I have participated in many live series finals and never received an invite, a pm or know anything about.

   

• Yiannis1970 3,303 Posts

  Thu, Sep 15 2022 10:57 AM

  You invited me on the main channel which i joined.

• WGTNico 645 Posts

  Thu, Sep 15 2022 12:13 PM

  Here's a screenshot back from March where I sent you this server, seems I sent it to a Discord that you didn't use, however I did try and invite you. 

  Yiannis1970:

  You invited me on the main channel which i joined.

   

   

• Yiannis1970 3,303 Posts

  Thu, Sep 15 2022 1:03 PM

  Ok, no worries then. There was a problem with the account i guess and never received this invite?

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Fri, Sep 16 2022 12:49 PM

  WGTNico:

  While there hasn't been a lot of discussion about the changes, most of it has been positive. You can find the discussion in the main Discord in the #esports channel. Also, yes that pro player Discord does exist and only has players that have participated in live events in the past, and even then there was little discussion about these changes outside of them liking the changes. 

  Maybe it wasn't clear what I meant, although it's difficult to see why I'd worry about lack of discussion after the changes were made-if I wanted to then I'd discuss them. I didn't mean reaction, I meant discussion of what the changes there were going to be.

  There was none of that in the main Discord or your own forum, I strongly suspect there was in your "elite" group.  You say they like the changes; of course they'll like having to play less of the unlimited, the top 50-top 10 round... maybe a couple will miss out on making top 10 a few times but over the season it won't matter, and the clock is still absent most of the time and long when it is there.

  More to the point I reckon, and I freely admit this is all supposition, is that you (wgt but probably mainly you) went in with the attitude that you really were going to make this more open, talked to the elite players and came up with the changes there are.  Two definitive things you said (that the elite like the changes and that the changes make it much more open) don't really sit well together to me.  That is why I think the reason they "like" them is that there may have been real changes, 45sec clock every round etc etc, and it's better (for some of them) than that.

  WGTNico:

  We fully knew that this new format would end up with less ball hits and that's completely okay because we wanted each Live Series event and the season as a whole to overall be more competitive.

  I severely doubt you need worry about that.  I'd reckon typically the number of people that play the unlimited decreases massively as time goes on.  By the final week folk will have looked at a scoreboard seen they needed to score 49 to qualify for the top 10 and stopped playing it. By shortening it by a week (or whatever) and making it the top 50 there will be more still active in the final stages. Only those you discussed the changes with, and a few others of similar quality of play, will play less.

  As I've probably written too much and made a sidestep likely, one question and one request.

  Did you discuss this with the "elite discord group" before publishing the new rules?

  It would be nice if you said at the start if the second place gets HoF if a previous winner finishes top.

• WGTNico 645 Posts

  Fri, Sep 16 2022 1:37 PM

  DodgyPutter:

  Did you discuss this with the "elite discord group" before publishing the new rules?

  We've always been very open that we were making changes to Live Series and have asked for input across multiple platforms

  • including talking about it on the 19th Hole Hosted by me and previously Patch. The point of those streams is to gauge community sentiment and learn what is going right and what we still need to work on. 
  • We've also made an esports category of our Discord and always love getting feedback from our players. 
  • There was some discussion with top players where we reached out both via the pro Discord and to players directly. 

  The reason we did this was because they are the people most affected by these changes, and because of that we wanted to be as transparent as possible that changes are coming and we want to actually make more changes than many of players we talked to had thought of. Almost all of the changes were made solely off the opinions of Champion, R2G, and myself. We really have done our best to focus on being more open and making sure there is visibility on changes being made. In the future we will make sure to broaden the pool of players we survey.

   

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Fri, Sep 16 2022 3:12 PM

  WGTNico:

  We've always been very open that we were making changes to Live Series and have asked for input across multiple platforms

  • including talking about it on the 19th Hole Hosted by me and previously Patch. The point of those streams is to gauge community sentiment and learn what is going right and what we still need to work on. 
  • We've also made an esports category of our Discord and always love getting feedback from our players. 
  • There was some discussion with top players where we reached out both via the pro Discord and to players directly. 

  The two main platforms for discussion are your own forum and the main Discord server, the 19th hole and direct messages to you are not good ways of discussing changes to the game. The forum is, in my opinion, the best place.

  To suggest Patch-notes type streams as a place to discuss things seems ridiculous to me, when is it on? Even if it was consistent what time is that in Europe? Australia?  PM's to you seem just as daft, much better out in the open where it could be discussed, refined, improved, and sometimes dismissed, through many people seeing it. 

  I have no idea what the "e-sports category of your Discord" is and I strongly suspect I'm not alone in that.  Lol, I also suspect it's much the same group of people in all three bulleted groups.

  Why I think the forum is best is people can look at and discuss things in whatever thread they want when it's convenient for them.  As you would suggest that's not good for mobile players, then the same in the main discord server too.

  WGTNico:

  The reason we did this was because they are the people most affected by these changes, and because of that we wanted to be as transparent as possible that changes are coming and we want to actually make more changes than many of players we talked to had thought of.

  These just mean there is still no meaningful clock and the players you talked to can play less to qualify, what's for them not to like?  Whether the changes are good or not I just think it would be good to discuss things openly, including with those who spend money on the game, before they are decided.  Way back when you started, I thought, that's what you said you'd do.  Relying on people being boastful on streams isn't how I'd thought I'd hear about changes to the game.

• IamNicklaus 496 Posts

  Fri, Sep 16 2022 6:12 PM

  DodgyPutter:

  WGTNico:

  We've always been very open that we were making changes to Live Series and have asked for input across multiple platforms

  • including talking about it on the 19th Hole Hosted by me and previously Patch. The point of those streams is to gauge community sentiment and learn what is going right and what we still need to work on. 
  • We've also made an esports category of our Discord and always love getting feedback from our players. 
  • There was some discussion with top players where we reached out both via the pro Discord and to players directly. 

  The two main platforms for discussion are your own forum and the main Discord server, the 19th hole and direct messages to you are not good ways of discussing changes to the game. The forum is, in my opinion, the best place.

  To suggest Patch-notes type streams as a place to discuss things seems ridiculous to me, when is it on? Even if it was consistent what time is that in Europe? Australia?  PM's to you seem just as daft, much better out in the open where it could be discussed, refined, improved, and sometimes dismissed, through many people seeing it. 

  I have no idea what the "e-sports category of your Discord" is and I strongly suspect I'm not alone in that.  Lol, I also suspect it's much the same group of people in all three bulleted groups.

  Why I think the forum is best is people can look at and discuss things in whatever thread they want when it's convenient for them.  As you would suggest that's not good for mobile players, then the same in the main discord server too.

  WGTNico:

  The reason we did this was because they are the people most affected by these changes, and because of that we wanted to be as transparent as possible that changes are coming and we want to actually make more changes than many of players we talked to had thought of.

  These just mean there is still no meaningful clock and the players you talked to can play less to qualify, what's for them not to like?  Whether the changes are good or not I just think it would be good to discuss things openly, including with those who spend money on the game, before they are decided.  Way back when you started, I thought, that's what you said you'd do.  Relying on people being boastful on streams isn't how I'd thought I'd hear about changes to the game.

  This is funny ...how many users do you think as a percentage of the people who play wgt , actually read the forum , let alone are even aware of its existence ?. Look at the unique posters on here , and that will probably answer that question .  lets suppose wgt asked for input on the formatting of the live series on here , the forum ...what sort of  relevant input do you think that would receive ?  This thread has reached the heady heights of  10 contributors .