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Re: Glitches and Trust

Fri, Dec 29 2023 2:09 PM (21 replies)
  • MioKontic
    4,654 Posts
    Sun, Dec 24 2023 4:09 PM

    HamdenPro:

    Cicero733:
    I’ll answer as best I can.

    Wow, more proof of what I have been preaching, the best way is not always the shortest way.

    I enjoyed the read, but, admittedly, I read it, by breaking up in three parts, 1/3 after each meal.

    I'll try make my reply shorter, but there's no guarantee  :)

    Firstly, as in any sport, a rule book simply cannot cover every eventuality that might happen, because the people who write the rule books don't know what could happen.  I remember back in the 90's when rules of golf books were less than A6 in size, and no more than a centimetre thick.  However, most club secretaries also had a book called Decisions on the Rules of Golf.  This book was bigger than A5 size and probably 3 centimetres or more thick!  Although I've never read one, I assume it probably had hundreds of decisions that had been made for particular scenarios that weren't explicitly covered by the rules of golf. Secretaries could use this information to make similar decisions.

    And now back to Cicero's story...

    A local rule has to be written somewhere.  This is what it says on the R&A website on 'local rules' (section/rule 3):

    3   Local Rules for General Play

    A Local Rule is a modification of a Rule or an additional Rule that the Committee adopts for general play or a particular competition. The Committee is responsible for deciding whether to adopt any Local Rules and for making sure they are consistent with the principles found in Section 8. The Committee needs to make sure that any Local Rules are available for players to see, whether on the scorecard, a separate handout, a notice board or the course's website. Local Rules that may be adopted for general play fall into the following general categories:

    • Defining Course Boundaries and other Areas of the Course (Sections 8A-8D),
    • Defining Special Relief Procedures (Section 8E), and
    • Defining Abnormal Course Conditions and Integral Objects (Section 8F).
    I have bolded the sentence where it says that rules are available for players to see, i.e. they should be written down.  I have avoided using the word 'must' simply because the R&A haven't, but how else could a visiting player know about any local rule if it is not written somewhere?!?

    Further, I found this rule (section/rule 5):

    I   Code of Conduct Policy

    The Committee may set its own standards of player conduct in a Code of Conduct adopted as a Local Rule (see Rule 1.2b). The purpose of such a Code is to outline the standards of conduct the Committee expects of the players while playing the game of golf and the penalties that may apply for breaches of that Code. But the Rules of Golf determine what actions a player may and may not take while playing the game and a Committee does not have the authority to change those permissions and restrictions by applying penalties differently through a Code of Conduct.

    Again, note the text that I've bolded.

    There's more...

    Although I didn't specifically find anything in the rules concerning a ball travelling over an out-of-bounds area, section/rule 18.2a says:

    (2) When Ball Is Out of Bounds. A ball at rest is out of bounds only when all of it is outside the boundary edge of the course.

    More relevant text bolded above.  A ball in the air is not at rest, therefore cannot be deemed to be out-of-bounds.  I'm assuming the pole defines the course boundary (as well as white out-of-bounds stakes)?

    And going back to section/rule 5, a little further down 5(2)b says:

    b.   Not allowed

    The Committee may not use a Code of Conduct to:

    Introduce new penalties for actions unrelated to player behaviour, for example a Committee may not use a Code of Conduct to introduce an unauthorized Local Rule, such as penalizing a player for hitting a ball over properties located out of bounds, or introducing a penalty for a player who fails to announce to another player that they are going to lift a ball to identify it.

    Relevant text bolded once more.

    Phew!  That's enough of rules for now, but I think it makes it quite clear that your committee is out of order in what they are doing, in more cases than one!

    Moving on...

    All documentation about local rules implies that they relate to all players.  I am pretty sure that if the USGA or the R&A were told that there was a 'local rule' just for the president because he can't hit the ball straight, I'm sure they would not allow it. I know many players who slice the ball a long way from left to right, usually high handicappers - would they be allowed the same local rule?  I suspect not.

    Now, regarding your 5th hole.  Firstly, there are many courses around the world that have a severe dogleg.  Sometimes it is possible to drive over the corner to cut some of the distance, but often it is just a case of having to play a mid-iron to the corner of the dogleg and then another iron shot to the green.  Yes, the 2nd shot might be longer than the tee shot, but that is what hole stroke indexes are there for - better players will still more often than not be able to hit the green in regulation with a long iron (or at worst get up and down if they miss the green), whereas a higher handicap player would hit it less often and make a gross par less often, but still be able to make a nett par.  So from a design point-of-view, I would say it's a good test of golf.  There is nothing to say you have to play a driver off every hole, or that your 2nd shot should be shorter than your tee shot.

    And now to the pole.  I will once again repeat what I said above (from the official rules of golf) - if it is a local rule it should be written down either on the scorecard, a noticeboard, or on their website, so that all players, both members and visitors, are aware of it.  Personally, I don't have a problem with the local rule itself (except for how it is being defined) - whatever the membership might have thought, the pole was put there to protect the adjoining properties, and possibly injuring someone.  Maybe you have never hit your ball into the adjoining properties, but I'm sure many other players will have.  For me, the issue is with the pole itself in that it doesn't really do it's job.  What many courses do (certainly in the UK, don't know about the US) is to put up a high fence alongside the teeing area.  This stops players aiming too far left (or right) and therefore observing the safety aspect of the game.

    Maybe the membership didn't like anything about what had happened in the past, but the golf club obviously agreed to sell the land to the developer, so they need to make sure measures are in place to protect everyone, golfers and the public (including properties) alike.

    And finally, tell your president to go get some lessons!  Either that or he should play a wedge off the tee  :D

    Sorry HP, I failed  :)

  • MattyNic0
    39 Posts
    Fri, Dec 29 2023 2:09 PM

    bossbird:
    Driving up a fairway next to the hole you are playing is allowable in real golf , unless out of bound markers are in place , so this isn’t a glitch . Same applies on this game , there are many holes where it is  permissable. 

     

    I've actually done this in real golf, I once tee'd off so bad it went straight over on the other fairway, second shot no better, stayed on wrong fairway and managed to hit one the correct way on third shot.  My two playing partners had an argument as to whether it was permissible until the 19th hole where we found out that it was perfectly legal. 

    Golf huh?   

     

     

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