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Wind

• Soggyblogger 224 Posts

  Thu, Feb 21 2013 11:49 PM

  Though still new to this, and learning as fast as a geezer can,  I just remembered that I know something about the influence of wind on another object trying to make progress against the wind or being helped along by the wind. I am a fisherman who spends a lot of time running my boat against the wind. When I built a new and much larger cabin on my boat I took more notice of how the wind affects me.

  The thing I learned that relates to the physics of golf is that the wind affects me adversely MORE when I am running against the wind then it helps me when I am running with the wind, and this is because running10 MPH into a 25 MPH wind might slow me down to 8 MPH while running with the same wind I will only gain about 1 MPH. The reason is the relative difference between the two objects. One object being my boat and the other being the wind. Though it's not a direct relationship because the wind is not a solid object, but it applies because it has force.

  Ask someone else for the math, but if you are just assuming that the wind affects the ball equally for and against you I thnk you would be wrong, and I assume that fact is modeled in this game - though the difference might be slight.

  It is interesting, and I am trying to figure out the physics of this game, and it is much more difficult than I thought it would be when I first started. Much harder. Adding new equipment changes everything a little.

  In my world of boating, the wind is stronger higher up. Especially if you get above the trees. So I figure part of the reason my fabulous 10.5 driver is awesome is partly because with 10.5 degrees it flies the ball higher than an 8.5 degree driver, so when my ball goes higher it catches more wind and sails farther than an 8.5 degree driver which might be below the treetops at Congressional where I have apprenticed. Courses without many trees might not handicap the 8.5 degree drivers.

  I know this is just one of dozens of factors which influence the flight of the ball, and most especially where it lands. I think there might be a spot on the lake hole at Congressional where the trees block the wind when you are counting on it helping your ball across the pond. I take a chance to hit the green in two with my pitiful clubs (joking just a little) and donate to the cause, but I prefer that opportunity arrives when my ball is just about worn out anyway. That darn lake will be full of my balls pretty soon if they modeled that. Eighty cents a pop.

  I hope I didn't waste your time with this post.

  Soggyblogger

• 2,114 Posts

  Wed, Mar 6 2013 10:42 AM

  Thank you for this post. I believe it pertains more to real golf than with this game as there are inconsistencies between actual physics and computer generated physics, but it's good information nonetheless. Much appreciated.

  Kelsey  =)

• bubbadork 984 Posts

  Wed, Mar 6 2013 10:52 AM

  Think of it this way: if you hit a ball 100 mph into a 20 mph wind the initial speed of the ball through the air is 120 mph. If you hit it 100 mph with a 20 mph following wind the initial air speed is 80 mph. The acceleration (negative in this case, or deceleration) is proportional to the square of the velocity.

  Further, the magnus effect (lift) is greater for the headwind, causing the ball to rise higher and remain aloft longer.

  Consequently, the headwind will decrease the over-the-ground distance more than the tailwind will add to it.

  There are a number of web sites which will give the equations for the physics affecting the ball. 

• Soggyblogger 224 Posts

  Sat, Mar 9 2013 3:15 PM

  Kelsey12:

  Thank you for this post. I believe it pertains more to real golf than with this game as there are inconsistencies between actual physics and computer generated physics, but it's good information nonetheless. Much appreciated.

  Kelsey  =)

  You are welcome. I am watching wind affect and more and more I am convinced that Wind is one of the variables that the computer has to adjust shots according to it's programing by which I mean that this is a game with, in a sense, a computer opponent with AI (artificial intelligence). The computer rewards proper play and punishes improper play. However, it does follow principles of physics and that includes the fact that the wind is much stronger above the trees than below them. Watching my shots on both screens it is clear that the ball goes up relatively unaffected by the wind until the ball soars above the trees, and then the wind moves the ball noticeably, and when the ball falls nearer to the ground the wind stops moving the ball significantly.

  An example of the computer rewarding proper play and punishing improper play is found in the computer's use of wind. That little flag that wavers a little is the computer's physics based tool to affect shots. That is why conservative shots that assume the middle ground are more successful that risky shots which push the envelope. Like trying to reach the green near the cup on Capitol #2 when the cup is in the left hand corner. Attempting to go over the bunkers is the risky shot and if you have given your shot enough power the wind can veer off or gust up and still land your ball in the bunker. One time I hit the perfect shot and something freakish happened and my ball was hit by a massive gust and driven into the bunker 20 yards shy of the cup. It was the computer's way of telling me to try a different approach.

  So with wind, the middle path is best, but remembering that the longer clubs are affected more than the shorter clubs.

• Steve2golf 930 Posts

  Sat, Mar 9 2013 8:43 PM

  Kelsey12:

  Thank you for this post. I believe it pertains more to real golf than with this game as there are inconsistencies between actual physics and computer generated physics, but it's good information nonetheless. Much appreciated.

  Kelsey  =)

  +1 I feel far to many people try to apply real life physics to this and fail, maybe just maybe because it's not real.

   

• txzdave 1,316 Posts

  Sat, Mar 9 2013 10:36 PM

  Somewhere along the line I asked the same question of "Do trees affect the shot above or below the trees height?". I referenced Amen Corner to try to get the futile Augusta question revisited if we will ever see THE course here.....ever. I digress. It seems it's only into or helping and sidewinds that you factor in......But it seems to be a good question for many of the top players to at least hint at. Hopefully. I'd love to hear more on this.

• bubbadork 984 Posts

  Sat, Mar 9 2013 11:30 PM

  I have a formula that I use to adjust for wind speed and direction. My direction adjustments are made for 30 degree increments. I do not consider the effects of trees. All of the variables, including gusts, make it seem silly to do so. 

  One way to figure these things out is to play a lot of CTTH. Each shot on a given hole/course is made from the same distance, the same lie, the same elevation, and so forth. Play it over and over, noticing the variation.

• mantis0014 8,946 Posts

  Sun, Mar 10 2013 1:16 AM

  Heavy winds on courses with no tree's like St.A and Rsg are a Nitemare, compared to the Tree Lined Courses.

  There is a good Wind Distance Calculator that you can get from here... Do a search for it  in the Forums or if somebody else can give you the link to it.

  -Roger

• Soggyblogger 224 Posts

  Mon, Mar 11 2013 10:17 AM

  mantis0014:

  Heavy winds on courses with no tree's like St.A and Rsg are a Nitemare, compared to the Tree Lined Courses.

  There is a good Wind Distance Calculator that you can get from here... Do a search for it  in the Forums or if somebody else can give you the link to it.

  -Roger

  I tried to download that program and failed. I wish someone would make it easily accessible, but the way it is presented if one does not have WORD and other spreadsheet programs it seems impossible.

  As to wind, each hole is unique to some extent. Holes on Kai near the ocean often have more wind affect than shown. Holes on Capitol and Oak often have greens protected by surrounding trees. ST. Andy's is easier to predict the wind affect, IMO, because of no trees.

• Wheels65 744 Posts

  Mon, Mar 11 2013 3:51 PM

  Here is your link:

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/t/145432.aspx?PageIndex=1

  It runs on Windows machines and does not require a spreadsheet program.

  It did not give my computer a virus - but to be safe - run it thru yours before installing.