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NEW DRIVER BETWEEN LEVEL 88-94

• DoctorEagle 1,312 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 7:10 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  can see why WGT did what they did level's wise but I need my special ultra short sighted glasses on to do so....(My opinion, no offense to other's with different). V poor business / customer decision in my book I am afraid  ...WGT get a lot right but this one is a stuff up!

  Seems like they're banking on the additional lost nikes/callaways from L88-L93 players using the unforgiving R11 88... as well as the many bottles of xp boosts needed to get to L94. Plus it'll be a lot tougher for L90+ legends to win credits since many other L90+ players have better equipment.

  On the other hand, they'll lose revenue from those who won't even try to compete in the ready go's, premium tournaments, and challenges that might've been willing to on a more even playing field.

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 9:28 PM

  DoctorEagle:

  Seems like they're banking on the additional lost nikes/callaways from L88-L93 players using the unforgiving R11 88.

   

  That statement is pure BS..I mentioned earlier I used the R11 -never the R11S- up untill about 4 weeks ago...do you have the driver?..Have you played it?

   

  Be back in a minute after I check your profile and see if ya have or not.

   

  Edit:

   

  I see you have it...my take is if you can't hit it and hit it well...it's on you...I went from the (now gone) G10 270 yard driver to the R11...and did nothing but improve.

   

  I sure wish you could get the R1...then I'd like to see how your complaints would come forth..lol!

   

  "it's too long"..

   

  IT doesn't have enough loft"

   

  Yadda, yadda.

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 9:50 PM

  I agree MB, the R11 IS a good driver as I said in a previous post - my sole gripe is it was moved a few weeks before I could get it!

  And to support your view MB, I have NEVER lost a ball as a result of the R11 - I did lose 2 balls at Merion when I got metered twice - and the same result would have happened whatever driver I was using.

  And personally I do not think equipment will deter a player playing RG's etc, if they know their equipment and game then half the battle is won - the player hits the ball, not the equipment.

  Also to re-iterate my previous post, the game does not need more forgiving and longer drivers IMO - scores are too good as it is.

• DoctorEagle 1,312 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 10:23 PM

  MBaggese:

  DoctorEagle:

  Seems like they're banking on the additional lost nikes/callaways from L88-L93 players using the unforgiving R11 88.

  That statement is pure BS..I mentioned earlier I used the R11 -never the R11S- up untill about 4 weeks ago...do you have the driver?..Have you played it?

  I sure wish you could get the R1...then I'd like to see how your complaints would come forth..lol!

  "it's too long"..

  IT doesn't have enough loft"

  Yadda, yadda.

  Maybe the XP boost profits were the target and not the lost nike & callaway variance but your argument doesn't really make sense regardless of what I said.

  There's been a few others, but this is the first major gripe I've felt compelled to voice strongly after 4 years of playing WGT so it's absurd to say that I'd complain about a club being too long etc... so long as I had the choice of  using it or not and/or as long as there's a reasonable and comparable alternative.

  You obviously have a lot more experience in this game that most of us, but based on my 4 yrs of game play with similar club variances, the R11 doesn't compare favorably at all to the R11s.

  It's getting better now that I've learned you don't always have to break out the big dog (shot a 61 on the Vitual U.S. open qualifier :D)... but the combination of slower meter & more forgiveness is making me wish I'd held onto the G20 sometimes, even though the 2 extra yds. from the R11 seem to play more like 5+ yds at times.

  alanti:

  And to support your view MB, I have NEVER lost a ball as a result of the R11 - I did lose 2 balls at Merion when I got metered twice - and the same result would have happened whatever driver I was using.

  And personally I do not think equipment will deter a player playing RG's etc, if they know their equipment and game then half the battle is won - the player hits the ball, not the equipment.

  Also to re-iterate my previous post, the game does not need more forgiving and longer drivers IMO - scores are too good as it is.

  Yes, I said it first and maybe it was a little over the top but there's no way to know for sure if a ball you lost would've been different had you used a more forgiving club. 

  Your opinion on the game needing less forgiving drivers might be one I'd agree with but it's moot because there are forgiving drivers. And most people would agree that a player hits the ball better with better equipment.

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 10:44 PM

  DoctorEagle:

  Your argument doesn't make sense regardless of what I said.

  Yes is does...see below;)

   

  DoctorEagle:

  the R11 doesn't compare favorably at all to the R11s.

   

  It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

   

  If you know the shot and can play a round the ding, the difference between an 8 or 9 iron is is nothing, nor is the difference between a 3 or 4 iron...in fact many time I lay off  a bit to hit 3 wood , rather than 3 iron.

   

  IMO, the R1 (maybe the R11S too?...dunno, never used it) can make one or two shot a game..with the correct wind,..where you can play wedges (not PW) to the greens.

   

  But that seems like maybe one in 18 holes of RG's on most courses.

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 10:49 PM

  DoctorEagle:

  but there's no way to know for sure if a ball you lost would've been different had you used a more forgiving club. 

  I agree that I cannot be sure but were really bad jumps on the meter just as I clicked, they were miles of course sadly - it would have needed a miraculous forgiving club to have saved my ball!

  And yes there are more forgiving clubs (and as I said, I don't really think this is a good thing for the game - but yes I would buy one) but WGT have decided that these will be available to the players at the highest levels. A reward for playing a lot perhaps, but in my mind purely to keep the upgrading of clubs. Next stop for me, level 94 R11S, then a huge XP later level 98 R1....then what. If the clubs get longer and more forgiving, then are they going to lengthen the course and shrink the fairways? As that is a little hard to do, VEM will get turned up a notch and regardless how forgiving your clubs are it will be a struggle lol.

   

   

• DoctorEagle 1,312 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 10:55 PM

  I've re-edited my previous post a few times...

  Your point, while true isn't comparing apples to apples though. Regardless of the players swing, there's a pretty big difference between say an 8 iron with 2 1/2 forgiveness and a 60% meter vs. an 8 iron with 3 1/2 forgiveness and 40%. Or the same two scenarios w/ a 9 iron.

  Even if you could hit the ding every time (good luck w/ that :P ), a more forgiving club ought to compensate better for slight distance miscalculations or on proper sided mis-dings.

  The problem I have w/ the R11 is that I end up in the thick stuff more often than I did w/ the more forgiving G20, or than I'd likely be w/ the R11s. Agreed, part of that is me but it would help to have a better club... and it's a lot tougher to play a 450-500+ yd par 4 from 175-225 yds in the 40-50%, even if it only happens once or twice a round because of the less forgiveness. That can easily result in a 2-4 shot swing.

  Wasn't the reason they moved the R11s to L94 because it was TOO good?

  MBaggese:

  DoctorEagle:

  Your argument doesn't make sense regardless of what I said.

  Yes is does...see below;)

   

  DoctorEagle:

  the R11 doesn't compare favorably at all to the R11s.

   

  It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

  If you know the shot and can play a round the ding, the difference between an 8 or 9 iron is is nothing, nor is the difference between a 3 or 4 iron...in fact many time I lay off  a bit to hit 3 wood , rather than 3 iron.

  IMO, the R1 (maybe the R11S too?...dunno, never used it) can make one or two shot a game..with the correct wind,..where you can play wedges (not PW) to the greens.

   

  But that seems like maybe one in 18 holes of RG's on most courses.

   

• MainzMan 9,591 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 11:09 PM

  I loved the old R11, never found it particularly unforgiving unless I had a major finger fart.   I can't compare it to the G20 as I've never tried one.  If you want to see what a really unforgiving driver plays like give the Super-Tri R9 a go.

  I was one of the lucky ones, sorry guys, who was able to buy the S version at level 90 and there really is a big difference.  Not distance, although I think the S plays better into wind than the old one.  For me the main difference is forgiveness, I've had several drives where I'm very sure the old driver would have seen me in the rough but the S keeps me on the fairway.  It's only in very strong wind and dogleg holes that I miss the short stuff these days.

  I don't think the old driver was unforgiving enough to make you lose a ball though, there are few tee shots where a bad shot with a driver will lose you a ball unless you really make a mess of it.

  I can fully understand the frustration of those who were at level 89 when this driver came out.  Seeing that fat, juicy carrot before you and then having it snatched away just as you were about to step forward must have been incredibly annoying.  You didn't make any friends with that decision WGT.

• DoctorEagle 1,312 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 11:10 PM

  Fair enough, it's still very unfair the R11s got moved to L94 imo and on that I know we agree :)

   

  alanti:

  DoctorEagle:

  but there's no way to know for sure if a ball you lost would've been different had you used a more forgiving club. 

  I agree that I cannot be sure but were really bad jumps on the meter just as I clicked, they were miles of course sadly - it would have needed a miraculous forgiving club to have saved my ball!

  And yes there are more forgiving clubs (and as I said, I don't really think this is a good thing for the game - but yes I would buy one) but WGT have decided that these will be available to the players at the highest levels. A reward for playing a lot perhaps, but in my mind purely to keep the upgrading of clubs. Next stop for me, level 94 R11S, then a huge XP later level 98 R1....then what. If the clubs get longer and more forgiving, then are they going to lengthen the course and shrink the fairways? As that is a little hard to do, VEM will get turned up a notch and regardless how forgiving your clubs are it will be a struggle lol.

   

   

   

• DoctorEagle 1,312 Posts

  Sun, May 19 2013 11:16 PM

   

  MainzMan:

  I loved the old R11, never found it particularly unforgiving unless I had a major finger fart.   I can't compare it to the G20 as I've never tried one.  If you want to see what a really unforgiving driver plays like give the Super-Tri R9 a go.

  I was one of the lucky ones, sorry guys, who was able to buy the S version at level 90 and there really is a big difference.  Not distance, although I think the S plays better into wind than the old one.  For me the main difference is forgiveness, I've had several drives where I'm very sure the old driver would have seen me in the rough but the S keeps me on the fairway.  It's only in very strong wind and dogleg holes that I miss the short stuff these days.

  I don't think the old driver was unforgiving enough to make you lose a ball though, there are few tee shots where a bad shot with a driver will lose you a ball unless you really make a mess of it.

  I can fully understand the frustration of those who were at level 89 when this driver came out.  Seeing that fat, juicy carrot before you and then having it snatched away just as you were about to step forward must have been incredibly annoying.  You didn't make any friends with that decision WGT.

  Very well said and LoL on the carrot analogy but no need to apologize, I would've done the same as would most of us complaining. And that really is the main argument, that most people currently above L90 got the chance to purchase the driver and now we aren't competing on a level playfield.

  Either that or that there's nothing in between the abyss from L88 to L94 while the lower level and higher level clubs keep getting tougher to compete with.

  If the new lower level Callaway is such a great club as suggested in WGT's response to my email, then why is it now available to players well below L88, while those of us who've put in our time AND money are now stuck with an inferior club?

  Admittedly, it's more about ending up in the 40-50% stuff an extra time or two per round than actually losing a ball on a drive... It looks like it may be a long and at times bitter climb to L94, if I ever make it that far.