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Pro Tier Criteria for WGT Evaluation

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Fri, Oct 24 2014 1:22 AM (57 replies)
  • DRWR
    7 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 7:19 AM

    To All

    I was playing this morning with CoolSwing and we were talking about the coming Pro Tier.  As we talked I proposed the following:

    1. Establish the Pro Tier Criteria based on EARNINGs - NOT just average.  Apply the same criteria to Amateur as well.
    2. Eliminate Unlimited Play tournaments - limit play to best of 4 rounds or 2 of 4 or cumulative.  I believe this gives players at least a shot.  With only top 3 winning, this is a very narrow band.

    I'm sure some will say I am a wus cuz I don't want to play with the "big boys" - but I am pragmatic.  I am not going to spend another $18 on a tournament where I don't have a chance to win - that is the reality.  I play in a club and I play in the 2nd or 3rd flight, not the 1st.  We still hit it from the blues, but everyone recognizes the difference between a 2 hcp and a 8 hcp. 

    WGT should evaluate and/or post a distibution of winnings and you would see there is not really a distribution - and further supporting my proposal.

    The benefits of this 2 point proposal are the following:

    1. More WGT Players have a shot at winning tournaments
    2. Avoid the potential of sandbagging - I'm sure it occurs in the Hack Tier now
    3. Players who win are elevated into tougher tiers - just like flighting
    4. WGT generates more revenue on pay events because more players have a shot at winning.

    Tell WGT what you think.  This is just one man's opinion.

    Doc

  • tibbets
    1,043 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 7:45 AM

    That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  I'll tell you why.

    Lets say  you don't get elevated to my tier, Pro tier, whatever (since it's clear who you are referring to) and stay in the Amateur ranks.  What then?  You win at the Amateur level, then based on your earnings you're going to be right back up to my tier again.  All you gained was winning a prize or 2.  And what about the people who shoot the round of their lives and win something?  Well, they are going to get bumped up to my tier too, especially if the prize was something decent.  I don't think one lucky day should determine anything.

    No, earnings cannot be a determination for tier status.  Overall placements in tournaments perhaps (top 5's, top 10's etc.), but not the amount of money you've won. 

    As far as the tournament format goes, the Unlimited play gives people about as good of a chance as it gets at winning.  If you put me in a 4 round 18 hole tournament, I guarantee you I will finish either 1st or 2nd every time.  I shoot lower more consistently than anyone, so that's only going to make me win more, and you less.

     If our averages are separated by 2 points, then over 4 rounds that equates to an 8 shot differential.  You'll have to shoot 4 points better than your average over 4 rounds and have me shoot 4 points worse than my average over 4 rounds just for us to be even. The chances of that are not very good at all.   At least with an Unlimited play, you get a chance to shoot over and over unitl you shoot that 28 that you did this week. 

    Speaking of which, I see you've shot a 28 in the weekly Back 9 tournament this week, and your average is under 61.  You don't belong in the Amateur tier any more than I do, friend.  That average is better than over 99% of the golfers on here.  Face it, if you're good enough to shoot that low, it's time to move up.  Sorry if that means having to continue dealing with me, but that's just the way it is.  

     This isn't a 'Lets-have-everyone-win-something" kind of situation.  Performance determines winning, and any dilution of that principle dilutes the essence of the game.  Complain all you want if a select group of players win alot, but changing the rules just to benefit your situation is not the answer, nor is any proposal to "Tibbets-proof" the game.   The only answer to not winning is:  Practice and do better next time.  That's what every competitor on every level deals with.  All you can do is your best, and if it doesn't add up to winning, you tip your cap to whoever did and accept the results.

    We just need many more tiers.  That's the short answer.  Eventually we'll have them.

  • marioh
    1,055 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 8:34 AM

    Pro tier criteria should be based on a combination of factors.

    1)Avg

    2)Earnings

    3)Top 10 finishes (or percentage of top 10 finishes in relation to tournaments entered)

     

    I'd say if people meet 2 of the above 3 criteria, they should be moved to the Pro tier.

    I'll thow some numbers out for the 3 criteria:

    1)Avg - below 63 avg

    2)Earnings - above $100

    3)Top 10 percentage - 40%

     

    There should also be additional criteria for the above where certain numbers put you automatically into the Pro tier (without needing 2 of 3).

    That would be :

    A)Avg - below 60 avg

    B)Earnings - above $200

    C)Top 10 percentage - 50%

    If you meet any one of the top 3 criteria, you should automatically be put into the Pro tier.

  • DRWR
    7 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 8:45 AM

    Hey Tibbets

     

    I'm not complaining - and bud - I'm not your friend.  Your entitled to your opinion and I am to mine.  If you ever want to have a match on the regular links I'll be glad to kick your butt.  You got a monopoly on this thing great - it isn't a good business model for WGT.  Personnally I think you need a little cheese with you whine.  And maybe a job while your at it.

    Doc

  • tibbets
    1,043 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 9:30 AM

    I'm not the one whining about not winning, "bud".

    I suppose Tiger Woods isn't good business model for the PGA tour either.

    Get real man, and keep your personal attack business to yourself.  I didn't insult you, no need for you to do it to me.  You're just sounding like another sore loser by doing so.

  • nivlac
    2,188 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 9:31 AM

    Could cut the animosity with a knife. :( 

    And here I was hoping for some sort of monthly Q-School qualifier.  I'll just make my comments and get out.

    Unlimited tournaments are fine and welcome as long as the game sits in it's current state of random shot dispersion.  In other words, until the game stops yanking everyone's putts and approaches offline with it's predetermined variations then unlimited play should stay.  If the deviations go away, then so should unlimited play stroke tournaments.

    tibbets is right.  This isn't Rookie League Baseball where everyone is 6, there are no outs and everyone gets a turn to bat every single inning and nobody really keeps the score.  The only way to remove him from the top of the list is to play better, not to change up the rules.

    Besides, moving tibbets to the pro tier is just going to open the door for someone else to step up and become the predominant force in the Am tier.  You're always going to have the "person or persons to beat" no matter what level you're competing on.

  • AvatarLee
    1,644 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 10:05 AM

    So then the winner of the Hack Tier Play with Parker tournament (who just recently made Am. status) will then be 'banished' to the Pro tier indefinitely because his/her prize value is in excess of $2000???  Seems a bit askew if you ask me.

  • Jarid
    31 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 10:06 AM

    I like the idea of a monthly qualifier, with exemptions for winning tourneys etc. 

    The pro tier should be prestigious and very tough to get. If we are going for authenticity modeling the PGA tour

    to some degree should be considered. 

    On a side note..something that has been bugging me - players who only post thier best rounds. I'm not saying

    I dont throw away rounds that i get screwed in or whatever, but for some of the top players who are only posting rounds

    every few days/weeks etc. BS  I have an idea that may help with this problem. For every day you do not post a round you should 

    be penalized .25 to your average.....a sorta cobbweb effect. 

     

  • marioh
    1,055 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 10:18 AM

    My numbers were thrown out there as a debateable baseline.

    Maybe eliminate earnings from my automatic promotion to pro criteria (leaving just avg and top 10 percentage).

    Under that situation, the hack level player who won the Play w/Parker tourny would not be promoted since they don't meet 2 of the 3 criteria (1st level), and if earnings is dropped from the 2nd level criteria, the person would not get promoted due to not meeting any of the criteria.

     

  • ncviz
    527 Posts
    Wed, May 6 2009 10:42 AM

    I think earnings would be fine if the lower tiers had significant lower prizes, by cash value. Now when the Hack and Am, Pro whatever keep getting the same prizes then nothing with earnings would make sense.

    Also if you going to have average in the equation, there will need to be a system in place that doesn't let you quit without penalties. I know alot of people don't like that or it my case could care less about it. But that's only because it really doesn't matter, other than your name showing up on the top ten list. As soon as average starts meaning something it better be true. You want to play every hole with every conceivable shot? Then you should pay a heavy price for that. I'm sure everyone has done something like, but right now it's within the rules, so you can knock yourself out.

    Anyway I do like a qualification process. Sort of like moving up from one tour to another. But just like in real golf the prizes need to be that much better on the way up or else people would just want to stay in their lower tier where things are easier.

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