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Thoughts on new tiers and levels

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Sun, Oct 24 2010 10:02 AM (24 replies)
  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Wed, Aug 11 2010 10:25 AM

    Thought I'd start a separate post so comments on my post don't become interlaced with comments from the previous on going discussion. Easier for me and hopefully everyone to read.

     

    My philosophy on problem solving:

    1. There is no perfect solution. 

    2. Every solution creates new problems.

    3. Compromise is usually necessary.

    4. Someone can always find fault.

     

    Getting bogged down seeking perfection gets us nowhere. We can only try to find good or satisfactory solutions and not the perfect or optimal solution. A good solution addresses the problem at hand without spinning off equal or greater new problems.

     

    And we must be objective and not emotional when judging the weight of a problem.

     

    How does WGT's proposal stack up?

     

    Problem: Tournament competition within today's Master and Pro tiers is unbalanced. A great majority of the tournaments are won by the same small subset of tier members.

     

    WGT Solution: Split the Master tier into 3 separate tiers and split the Pro tier into 2 separate tiers.  The new Master Legend tier is further separated by playing from new Championship tees.

     

    Pluses(+s):

     

    Huge +: Thousands(Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?) of Masters, Tour Masters, Tour Pros and Pros will see closer competition within their new tiers.

     

    Small +: A much smaller number of Legend Masters get to enjoy the "new courses" created by playing the Championship tees.

     

    Minuses(-s):

     

    Medium -: Additional opportunities for sandbagging in the Tour Master, Master, and Pro tiers. Sandbagging needs to be addressed separately.

     

    Small -: Legend Masters will feel disadvantaged playing match play from the Championship tees against any other tier.  Time will tell if this holds true.  It is difficult to judge without knowing what new Legend equipment will be available.

     

    Small -: Members on the edge of the tier lines will be unhappy.  Offset by those on the edge who are happy they didn't fall the other way but keep quiet about it.  Unavoidable.

     

    Small -: Those Masters who "fell through the trap door" to Master will be unhappy they were not moved back to the Tour Pro tier.

     

    Unknown weight: If tournament payouts are held the same(unknown), WGT tournament payouts will more than double. How this affects the virtual economic model is unknown, but I would assume its been offset by increases in tier and/or level based purchases.

     

     

    Conclusion:  This is a good solution.  Choose the tier boundaries wisely.  Get input from players on the Masters splits for certain.

     

    Consider eliminating solo ranked rounds affecting averages from tiers where sandbagging occurs. Solo ranked rounds only affecting Amateur and Hack tier averages seems to make sense to me on the surface.

     

    Does not eliminate sandbagging by Pros or Masters in the new tier scheme. Players could always choose to shoot an intentional high score in a tournament to pad their average.  This happens IRL golf too.

     

    Perhaps adapting the way scores are recorded using the Adjusted Gross Score (http://golf.about.com/cs/golfterms/g/bldef_adjustedg.htm) method would help.

     

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Problem: All equipment is not available to all players.

     

    WGT Solution: Remove the tier based restrictions on equipment.  Add an Experience Level based restriction on equipment. Experience Levels that will be based on actions you perform on WGT such as completing rounds, hitting shots and interacting with other players. Experience Levels will not be skill-based like Tiers; instead, you will level up as you play and interact on WGT.

     

    Pluses(+s):

     

    Huge +: The best and newest equipment is now available to the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of WGT players, if they are willing to put in the time playing and interacting.

     

    Big +: WGT creates new revenue opportunities with level based equipment purchases.

     

    Medium/Big? +: WGT creates new advertising revenue opportunity since members are now rewarded for participating on site, there should be more visitors.  Unique page views should increase as well as unique visitors (http://siteanalytics.compete.com/wgt.com/?metric=uv).  Ad rates are based on that kind of stuff.

     

    Small +: Players are rewarded for completing multi-player rounds thus somewhat reducing the amount of quitting.

     

     

    Minuses(-s):

     

    Big/Huge -: Starting everyone out at 0 Experience Level appears to mean Legends and Masters will/could be frozen at their current equipment levels for a long time until they build their experience levels.  If my assumption is true, this is a solution killer.

     

    Medium/Big? -: No WGT revenue for a while from Master tier players buying new clubs.  See above.

     

    Medium/Small -: Multi-player matches between certain tiers becomes un-leveled with lower tier players having access to better and longer clubs while playing from shorter tees.  Offset by lower tier players ability to handle the faster meter and less forgiveness of better clubs. Also considering a lower tier player, playing with better equipment should score better and move up tiers if scoring average (see Adjusted Gross Scoring method), and tier progression rules are properly done. Don't forget, for the most part we get to choose who we play multi-player rounds with.  Not a big problem as I see it.

     

    Conclusion: This is not a good solution at this time if many players will have their equipment levels frozen until they level up.  Possible solution is give Experience Level credit to existing players for past games shot, shots hit, and interaction. If this deficiency is clarified or corrected it is a good solution.

     

    Be gentle guys.  And most of all objective and unemotional in your critiques.

     

  • BOFFMEN
    337 Posts
    Wed, Aug 11 2010 10:34 AM

    I know you meant well but this should be merged into the thread with the other replies...easier for WGT and the members.

    We all have put a lot of thought into this too.

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Wed, Aug 11 2010 10:50 AM

    BOFFMEN:

    I know you meant well but this should be merged into the thread with the other replies...easier for WGT and the members.

    We all have put a lot of thought into this too.

    Whatever WGTAlex wants to do with this is OK with me.  Merge or leave it is her call.

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Thu, Aug 12 2010 5:19 AM

    bump

  • jbenny11
    863 Posts
    Thu, Aug 12 2010 6:37 AM

    Andy, thanks for taking the time for that well thought out post. That pretty much sums it up for me, again WGT is going to proceed with this. My hope is that this does not create a new hotbed for bagging. As for everything else, hopefully WGT has thought about all aspects of the new system. I fear it will be a little bumpy at first. JB

  • AlaCowboy
    1,321 Posts
    Thu, Aug 12 2010 10:00 AM

    andyson:

    bump

    I asked 2 questions on the original thread that never got answered. Maybe WGTAlex will see it here and answer.

    "Will the Tour Pro play from longer tees than the Pro?"

    "Will a Legend bring Championship tees and lightning-fast greens to multi-play rounds for Pros and Amateurs to struggle with?"


  • WGTalex
    2,087 Posts
    Thu, Aug 12 2010 11:22 AM

    Hi Ala,

    The current plan is to have tour Pros and Pros tee off from the same tee.

    Yes, that is possible but you can choose not to play in such a round.

  • Richard4168
    4,309 Posts
    Thu, Aug 12 2010 11:57 AM

    andyson:

    My philosophy on problem solving:

    1. There is no perfect solution. 

    2. Every solution creates new problems.

    3. Compromise is usually necessary.

    4. Someone can always find fault.

     

    Getting bogged down seeking perfection gets us nowhere. We can only try to find good or satisfactory solutions and not the perfect or optimal solution. A good solution addresses the problem at hand without spinning off equal or greater new problems.

    I totally, and completely agree 100%. Let's make the best of what we been given. WGT has their agenda, but the ideas put forward need to be for the good of the game and the members as well.

    Great post Andyson.

     

  • Kaslo
    428 Posts
    Thu, Aug 12 2010 1:01 PM

    You missed a Huge - on the equipment. This will greatly benefit the sandbagger. If you read the responses it's the number one concern.

  • michgolferman
    252 Posts
    Thu, Aug 12 2010 1:30 PM

    Hi,

    I have been playing for a few months, but have rarely posted anything.  I am discouraged from playing in the Ready-Go's because I see the leaderboard with absurdly low scores in my class (Pro), so I understand those who dislike the sandbaggers.

    Isn't a possible solution to have have multiple ratings for users that are both visible on the users profile.  Keep track of what someone shoots in Tournaments and what someone shoots in regular play.  Therefore if you see that someone has an avg of 73.25 in normal play, but a 60.20 average in Ready-Go's, you will have a pretty good idea of what sort of player you are playing against. 

    If you have a rating based on rounds played where credits are in the balance (ie. Ready-Go's; monthly stroke play tourneys; Match Play Challenges) and not include ranked games played outside the tournament set up, no one could then manipulate their handicap, right?

    I'm sure I may not have thought this through as thoroughly as others, so I'd like to hear what I may be missing.

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