Forums

On the order of putting -- I just can't handle the BREAK

• BigInigoMontoya 208 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 5:58 AM

  I'd like to think that I have gotten a little bit better since joining the tour earlier this summer, but putting continues to be one of my biggest struggles.  Most of the time, if I can hit the green in regulation, I feel confident I can 2 putt for par from any distance inside 30 feet. There are obvious exceptions of course, on the holes that are naturally Beastly from any distance, such as Bethpage 15, St. Andrews 11, Merion 5 (any pin placement), Merion 6 back pin, Merion 7 front pin, oh hell just about any hole on Merion is  a tough 2 putt for me, Oakmont 9, Olympic 13 (Worst.  Hole.  Ever.), Kiawah 4, and etc.  Now that Tough It Out III is starting this week, it is absolutely imperative that I can 2 putt the reachable holes, and get up and down on the ones I can't reach.

  So, lets take a look at a few examples from a recent round.  The new front pin on Merion 3 is an extremely difficult par with my current clubs. 3iron and hybrid wedge don't have the distance to reach the green.  My 3 wood does, but it has almost no loft whatsoever, and in the event that it does land on the green, it will roll past a minimum of 40 to 50 feet or more. On a recent round, I missed short, and pitched to 6 feet to give myself a fairly makable par putt.  

  http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5741/jogl.jpg

  You can't really tell from this screen shot, but those dots definitely had some movement to them from left to right, indicating a decent amount of break.  So, I took aim to the left of the hole, approximately 1 half of a grid square.

  http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7361/fzgp.jpg

  As you can see from the screenshot, I just did manage to sneak it in the side door, and I was able to save Par.

  http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7936/it5v.jpg

  Later in that same round, after back to back bogeys at 7 and 8, I had an excellent chance to get a stroke back.  Pin high at the 9th inside of 4 feet, but I failed to convert -- epic Facepalm.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl_gUbb9at8

  And on the short Par 3 13th, I missed long and had a 16 footer coming back down the hill.  A sharp break from right to left, and I must have aimed at least a full grid square to the right of the hole.  I didn't really consider the putt makable to begin with, but even with a dinged putt it missed very badly.  Rolled a couple of feet and then just took off on me--it never even had a chance. :(

  replay.aspx?ID=1d1189e9 19b1 4f21 a6d5 a23800df455e

  So, my question is, whenever you address the ball and you start to line up your putt, is there some sort of formula or technique to use to tell you just how much you should adjust your line to compensate for the break, or do you just have to 'eyeball' it, cross your fingers, give it a ride and hope for the best?  Right now my biggest problems seem to be:
  
  1. The ball will break, but does so only after rolling past the hole
  2. The putt breaks more than I anticipate and I miss
  3. The putt breaks less than I anticipate and I miss wide
  4. Any combination of the three and I end up with a lip out

  I now have access to both the Versa and the Method, and I'm hoping that once I finally buy one of them their precision and forgiveness will help me out on the 5 and 6 footers that I seem to miss on a regular basis.  But regardless of the putter, you have to know the right aim and line in order to give yourself a chance and right now that is where I'm still struggling.  Any tips that you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I'm already using nivlac's thread to help me control my distance, but my aim is just awful and still needs major help.  
  

• acebishop 116 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 6:06 AM

  This my give you some ideas.  A new putting stroke have worked on for some time now.  It works for me.  Just got the versa putter L33. And this putter is killer with this style stroke. 

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/t/195377.aspx

  Ace

• jimoldfart 131 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 7:09 AM

  The movement speed of the dots dictate the amount of break. I count one thousand one, one thousand two, etc. as the dot travels from the edge of the grid to the center of the grid. If I count to 3 it is 3 inches of break, 4 is two inches, 5 is 1 inch, over 5 is 1/2 inch. It will also help if you pay attention to which grid the ball path is going to take the ball over as its not unusual to have a wide variance in the individual grids amount of break. 

  The 4 results your showing as problems could also be a result of your speed. #1 & #3 you could have hit it too hard, #2 you hit it too easy. Putting is the toughest part of this game to the majority of us. I guess it goes back to practice , practice, practice. Good Luck!

• BigInigoMontoya 208 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 9:22 AM

  I know I've seen the 'miss the ding' style of putting mentioned several times here on the forum.  What I don't recall, however, is a tutorial on how much to miss the ding, or which direction to miss the ding, or if you should aim straight at the hole, or still adjust some for the break.  So I think I should probably get better at normal putting before I want to take on the challenge of missing the ding.

• acebishop 116 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 10:09 AM

  Go to a practice round with free balls.  Use the mulligans on the green and putt away.  That is  what I did. Front view you miss the ding one way. Reverse view miss it the other way.

   By doing this you get a better sense of breaks along with feel of green speeds.

  When I aimed I was aiming hoping to always hit the ding.  Did not work well for me.

   

  Ace

   

• ScottHope 10,658 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 11:00 AM

  In my humble opinion BM, I think it would be a good move to acquire a better putter. There are plenty available to you at your level which have better meter increments than the starter putter.

  Judging short putts with a minimum meter increment of 30ft can't be very easy and that may be the reason why you are finding the breaks difficult to judge. The power you put into the putt will affect how much it breaks and if you can't judge the power reasonably accurately then you won't be able to determine how much to account for the break either, and it's much easier to judge the power with a 10ft meter increment than it is with a 30ft one.on a 6ft putt for example.

• alosso 21,094 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 1:32 PM

  From my experience, that is not the weakness of the Starter. My Daytona has a 15 ft scale which I only use on tap-ins. Regular scale up to 15 ft is the same as the Starter, 30 ft. On Legend greens, the power is just below 40 %.

  The advantage of other putters shows mainly from further out. I have 60-90-150-300 ft scales, and me thinks that at least the 60 ft are missing with the Starter - the gaps are too big. Plus, the minor quality of that stick shows on the long putts (> 40 ft) when deviation explodes.

  BTW, the Starter is an excellent off-ding putter.

  @BM: This in mind, you may experience quick ameloriation on the long putts, but with the shorter ones it's all practice. You may have a look at "G0ld's revised putting formula" in the forum (g0ld with a zero!) but eventually it's up to your skills.

  At the end, one word concerning putting styles: It's a personal decision as well, perhaps born from experience or lucky moments. There's one major advantage of "ding putting": On steap breaks, you can reposition the aimer as far off as you wish, but the off-ding is limited by the light grey meter field. Sooner or later you'll have to move the ding, why not do it permanently?

  Nevertheless, I've been an "off-dinger" for two years now.

• kilbraur 219 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 1:42 PM

  BigInigoMontoya:

  I know I've seen the 'miss the ding' style of putting mentioned several times here on the forum.  What I don't recall, however, is a tutorial on how much to miss the ding, or which direction to miss the ding, or if you should aim straight at the hole, or still adjust some for the break.  So I think I should probably get better at normal putting before I want to take on the challenge of missing the ding.

   

  I have explains all here I do the picture to

  http://www.wgt.com/forums/p/192796/1338965.aspx#1338965

   

   

• Tightrope 1,072 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 1:48 PM

  BigInigoMontoya:

  1. The ball will break, but does so only after rolling past the hole
  2. The putt breaks more than I anticipate and I miss
  3. The putt breaks less than I anticipate and I miss wide
  4. Any combination of the three and I end up with a lip out

  First of all - the elevation, up/down, will make a huge different in how the ball roll. Your example #1 for instance, that is a typical uphill putt. The faster the ball roll over a certain "break", the straighter it will go. It will go straight until it slows down and the it starts falling. That means that if you have a downhill putt, you must aim wider and uphill tighter. Power is just as important as aim, so number one lesson is to get that right. Learn how to calculate exactly how hard you should hit. It is the first lesson because it is the easiest one and you need to have one thing to rely on when you evaluate your efforts.

  After you have managed the power, the speed, you will eventually start "feeling" the break, looking at the dots. Yes, there is formulas but they are usually quite useless unless the break is constant or if you have unlimited time to calculate the various parts of the putts break.

  Get the speed right, so that the ball always stop  one ft  behind the hole if you miss. Maybe you prefer harder, but then it should stay as far behind as you intended even if that intention was 3ft instead of one.

  From there each putt you make will leave a little mark in your brain that is used when you look at the next grid lines.

  Oh, and don’t stare at the dots, imagine instead how the ball will roll and how it will be affected by the break indicated by the dots. Have a moment of zen.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, Sep 16 2013 2:14 PM

  BigInigoMontoya:

   Pin high at the 9th inside of 4 feet, but I failed to convert

  This takes nerve but becomes habit real quick-don't aim outside the cup and hit it harder, like add 3-4 feet harder. Try it on those pesky under 6 footers, or so.

  BigInigoMontoya:

   I didn't really consider the putt makable to begin with, but even with a dinged putt it missed very badly.  Rolled a couple of feet and then just took off on me--it never even had a chance.

  That's more than likely because you didn't pay enough attention to the break at your feet. When looking at a putt look at the 1st 1/3rd and last 1/3.

  BigInigoMontoya:

  1. The ball will break, but does so only after rolling past the hole
  2. The putt breaks more than I anticipate and I miss
  3. The putt breaks less than I anticipate and I miss wide
  4. Any combination of the three and I end up with a lip out

  All 4 of those scenarios are cured with the right speed. Tightrope nailed it-get the speed right and you're 90% there.  :-)

   

  p.s., I like the "little spot on the brain" thought, TR-very true.   ;-)