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Serious question...Is WGT about to shut down?

• skullman10 2,136 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 9:52 AM

  All irrelavant if they pull the plug. You have done all your dough..never to be seen again. 

• MainzMan 9,591 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 10:00 AM

  YankeeJim:

  I can play 3-4 AS rounds a night and only use one ball a week doing it.

  Don't forget there's also the time it takes to play a round of AS compared to stroke play on your own.   That bit of banter between shots doesn't just make the game more enjoyable, it also adds a few seconds to each shot.  Yes, I know most is done by the person not lining up a shot but occasionally they also post a comment and that adds to the time taken to complete the shot.

  I can play 9 holes stroke play in well under 15 minutes on my own, a fun AS game will take probably 40 plus.  If we assume everyone has a limited amount of time to play this game then not only are they hitting the ball less often in AS, they're also playing fewer rounds.

  Say I have 1.5 hours in the evening to devote to everyone's favourite online golf game, that's at least 4, probably 5 rounds of 9 hole stroke play if I play alone.  At least 16 hits of the ball per round, assuming 100% GiR, making at least 64, more like 80 hits taken off my ball.  If I play AS I'm probably only getting 2 rounds in, no way I'm hitting that ball more than 20 times.

  Alt-shot, the fun and cheap way to play WGT.

• skullman10 2,136 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 10:08 AM

  Still if that were to happen..always got the  FCA even the SFO to look into it..taking public money etc etc..sh1t... no you dont..based in the states isnt it?..Would be goodnight Vienna..

• PaulTon 10,731 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 10:12 AM

  Relax everyone, the end is not nigh...

                                

• jayw4862 3,364 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 10:13 AM

  IRISHPUNK:

  There's 4 players though so the ball usage is the same as it would be if we were playing stroke play by outselves.  Drive, approach, putt.  

  Consider the ball usage if those 4 players played 9 holes alone. Also, take into consideration the time spent playing a 9 hole AS vs the time spent playing any 9 hole course alone. 

  Not down on multi-player games. You know that. I'm just using logic, and guessing that is/could be the reason the invite issue isn't fixed, or even addressed by WGT. I'm like you, and everyone else here....lost as to what is going on. 

  It's funny that if someone posted something like..."Hey, I just went to the Pro Shop and bought one sleeve of level 33 Callaways and it gave me 5 sleeves. Is this a special promotion or something?"... there would be a "frost" sign in about 2 seconds following that post and it would stay frosty until that glitch was fixed. And, it would be addressed by someone too. 

  *** Edit...Sorry. I didn't see YJ's and Mainz' post. they state the same thing, just in a better way.

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 10:24 AM

   

  jayw4862:

  andyson:

  What's your reasoning stating the majority of active players (those who come here to play multiplayer games with friends) only produce less than 5% of the revenue for WGT?

  And why would you delete the word "probably" from my post?

  I didn't!  I quoted your entire post above my paraphrase. And "probably" means almost certainly so I did not include it in my paraphrase.

  jayw4862:

  Ball usage in AS games, which is by far the most popular multi-player game is about 1/3 per 9 holes of that of a normal 9 holes played solo. Less ball usage on 9 holes (unless the players are just terrible hacks and take 5-6 shots to reach a green) than there is on 9 holes on a  Par 3 course. I can play 9 rounds and have some ball life left with one ball (2.5 life) on a Par 3 course. I can play 5 rounds on a normal Par 35/36 course. I played an AS game on Pinehurst yesterday and counted my hits (not putts). I hit the ball 8 times. Oh, and we went to extra holes, too.

  The 5% is just a rough guess. I will bet it's less than 10% for sure. 

  You give the impression you are well versed in the financial side of WGT.  You have info we don't?

  But you only count ball usage as WGT's revenue?  What about ad revenue?  A player merely shows up on site and counts as a "hit" and generates ad revenue.  Site statistics are tracked by ad companies and used to set ad rates.  Advertising revenue can be big.  Whole industries, TV and radio for instance, are supported by advertising.  As are whole websites supported by ads.

  Then there's WGT revenue generated by members earning free credits by viewing videos and taking surveys.  Do any of your majority of active players earn free credits?

  And you should be aware that resort courses like Bandon Dunes pay WGT to have their course.  And how much they pay is based on the demographics and number of visitors WGT gets.  BD is putting their resort name as well as golf courses in front of golfers who's demographics say they are potential customers for BD.  Its advertising.

  And the same is likely true for club and ball manufacturers.  You think any golfers here switch brands of balls in real life because they use Nikes on WGT?

  So if the majority of active players stop playing, and stop showing up on site it follows, IMO, the majority of WGT revenue also goes away.

  Edit:  I published a diagram on my profile blog that illustrates much of what I said above.

   

• jayw4862 3,364 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 10:44 AM

  andyson:

  You give the impression you are well versed in the financial side of WGT.  You have info we don't?

  But you only count ball usage as WGT's revenue?  What about ad revenue?  A player merely shows up on site and counts as a "hit" and generates ad revenue.  Site statistics are tracked by ad companies and used to set ad rates.  Advertising revenue can be big.  Whole industries, TV and radio for instance, are supported by advertising.  As are whole websites supported by ads.

  Then there's WGT revenue generated by members earning free credits by viewing videos and taking surveys.  Do any of your majority of active players earn free credits?

  And you should be aware that resort courses like Bandon Dunes pay WGT to have their course.  And how much they pay is based on the demographics and number of visitors WGT gets.  BD is putting their resort name as well as golf courses in front of golfers who's demographics say they are potential customers for BD.  Its advertising.

  And the same is likely true for club and ball manufacturers.  You think any golfers here switch brands of balls in real life because they use Nikes on WGT?

  So if the majority of active players stop playing, and stop showing up on site it follows, IMO, the majority of WGT revenue also goes away.

   

  I agree with you that if the majority leaves it will hurt. I'm not well versed in WGT's financial side/goals at all. I'm simply stating my thoughts/opinions. I ran a very successful business for 12 years. It was nothing like this, though. And, yes the other revenue you speak of is a huge part of their income. I'm just saying that the invite issue is not a priority. If it was, do you not think it would be fixed? Or even addressed? And by addressed, I mean a full statement from WGT telling everyone that it will be fixed, it can't be fixed, live with it, or something? 

  There have been at least 2 downtimes, and the invite issue was not fixed. Come to think of it, more things were broke after the downtimes. And the Hybrids everyone has asked for got into the Pro Shop. 

  I saw on Twitter that on the mobile version, players would soon be able to use the clubs they use in real life to play the game. Why is that not being implemented on the PC version/ Just too many unanswered and ignored questions lately. 

• skullman10 2,136 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 11:10 AM

  I wouldnt back against them not closing to be honest..too many questions and problems unanswered..distinct reduction in ad's and sponsers in recent months. WGT not addressing issues publicly (the individual/multiplay challenges) being the biggest moan it seems.

  Those who have spent money on upgrades have had.. it if they close. No official regulation..if it were based in the UK there would be. The SFO would be all over them as they are continuing to take "public money".

   

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 11:30 AM

  jayw4862:

  Go back and read Dan's post. Some of you may need to read it slowly to comprehend what it is saying. And, those aren't Dan's words in that post.

  LOL, not my words for sure LOL

  The post/repost/quote was meant to show that WGT is taking a new direction not going broke as some think, it is in fact doing great...

  Also pointing out that if you look at the timeline of the IOS and Android releases it coincides with all the problems the PC version has had...

  In short the apps are the main focus now and I seriously doubt they will be fixing or even looking at any problems with the pc version for a long time....no way they do anything until the Android launch is off and running successfully...

   

  AS far as "ball usage" goes, think about it...how many of us are playing far less than before, I know I am! It doesn't matter!

  If you come here to see if anything is fixed they win!

  I'm not playing much but for some stupid, or stubborn reason I decided to reach lvl 102 before my departure(I still need 20k XP points), and to have a certain amount of credits to buy 4 new clubs I want on my impending return(I still need 1500 credits)....

  Now let me make that last paragraph simpler..

  To show WGT I am p!ssed off I play less, yet I still "hit" the site, and take surveys for more credits which is more profitable for them than my playing...using cash instead of doing surveys would hurt them more...

  My credit plan is to buy the new wedges and the 250yd 3 wd should I start playing regularly in the future, and still have 50,000 credits banked...if I lose interest or for some reason don't play like I once did, I'll gift my son-in-law all the clubs and balls he needs....

  Now in MO. that plan alone is enough to have me declared mentally f'n incompetent in a court of law and the reality is I'm hanging on and down on my knees with tears flowing begging WGT to fix my game, I f'n need my game, please, I'll do anything no matter how stupid I look to have my addiction back, your cutting my drugs WGT and their not working!!!!

  Fortunately I am losing interest by the day while I still have some dignity left !!!!!

   

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Fri, Mar 27 2015 11:45 AM

  jayw4862:

  I'm just saying that the invite issue is not a priority. If it was, do you not think it would be fixed? Or even addressed? And by addressed, I mean a full statement from WGT telling everyone that it will be fixed, it can't be fixed, live with it, or something?

  I'll speculate that the "low level code" issue (as WGT called it) is not entirely under their control.

  In 2007, WGT signed a deal with a German company, Exit Games, to use their Neutron 4.0 software to handle the multiplayer PC to PC connectivity. (Neutron since re-named or folded into Exit Games Photon product)  More info on Photon Here. That software handles the connections of players to a MP game and starts it off in the game lobby.  Ever notice while watching the status bar how you start off looking for a MP game on server psj-gs02 and when you join a game you're now on psj-gs09?  That's Neutron (Photon) at work.  Neutron(Photon) runs on the same WGT server (see diagram) as the "Game Engine" and of course communicates with the "Game Engine" so there's some unique WGT code to interface with Neutron.  But Neutron is handling the lower level tasks for WGT.  Tasks like showing what the active Player is doing to the spectator player(s), running the shot timer, the chat, monitoring disconnects, etc.  Again, all speculation on my part, but I've spent some time reading.

  Since multi-player was introduced back in 2008 it was always PC to PC.  And it always worked pretty well, with disconnect problems being an exception. 

  I'll speculate WGT is now, 7 years later,  trying to implement PC to mobile multi player. (see Fatdan's post on the interview with Cheng where it stated: "The existing web players can seamlessly login to mobile with no friction and the mobile players can play multiplayer game against WGT players on any platform.")

  I'm speculating changes were made in the PC version interface to Neutron and in the Neutron code to handle mobile devices.  And those changes eff'd up the invite code.  And speculating those changes were made in the December update as that's when invite problems surfaced and that's when Android testers were requested.

  7 years is a long time.  Perhaps the original engineer who worked with Exit Games on the PC to PC implementation is gone? And some dev had to learn the code anew? Perhaps having to interface with an Exit Games engineer in Germany is slowing things down?

  Did I mention this is all speculation?