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A smidge about servers, the internet and whatnot

Thu, Aug 13 2015 9:06 PM (40 replies)
  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Mon, Aug 3 2015 5:51 AM

    Thanks Jim!

    I value your honest and objective opinion on this kinda stuff.  Your input on how well the 2 simulations run and look on your PC and browser would be appreciated.

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Mon, Aug 3 2015 6:09 AM

    Rather interesting what I found. The first time I tried the links I just right-clicked and opened in a new tab. Both meters looked good and ran decent, even with the main site window open. By decent I mean there were no distracting stutters but it wasn't perfect. Very playable.

    I then opened each link in a separate window and closed the main one. In a word-unplayable. Both meters jerked like there was no tomorrow. Keep in mind, this is in Chrome and my game acts the same way if I try to play in Chrome. (Haven't used Chrome to play in forever.)

    I then copied and pasted the links into my game browser-Comodo Dragon. In a word-perfect! Not decent, perfect. Both meters ran very smooth and I couldn't see a difference between them nor was there even a hint of a stutter.

    Draw your own conclusions but this definitely verifies what I have known all along-CD with an old version of Flash plays the game best for me.  :-)

     

    p.s., Was a nice visit to the Windy City for the Yankees, no?  :-D

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Mon, Aug 3 2015 8:01 AM

    YankeeJim:
    p.s., Was a nice visit to the Windy City for the Yankees, no?  :-D

    Hey, it wasn't a sweep!  eff the Yankees!  Bring back Ozzie, I miss him. LOL

    YankeeJim:
    I then opened each link in a separate window and closed the main one. In a word-unplayable. Both meters jerked like there was no tomorrow. Keep in mind, this is in Chrome and my game acts the same way if I try to play in Chrome. (Haven't used Chrome to play in forever.)

    Was that a one-off or is it repeatable?

    I ran the same sequence on Waterfox and on Chrome and the sims ran fine both times.  I use Chrome to play.  Both my browsers are up-to-date running the latest Flash.  Pepperflash on Chrome.  And my PC is a gaming laptop too.

    YankeeJim:
    CD with an old version of Flash plays the game best for me

    Wouldn't it be nice if WGT would allow us to choose older versions of their game client?  I'd go back to the May release when CB was first introduced.

    I also wonder what browser and Flash versions WGT QA uses for its testing.

  • dbcoop71
    23 Posts
    Mon, Aug 3 2015 8:10 AM
     

     This is quite possibly the greatest post ever   :)

    KILLER52:

    ...so, uh, is there a Johnson Rod and is it actually connected to anything?

    - T

    :)

    r




  • dbcoop71
    23 Posts
    Mon, Aug 3 2015 8:10 AM
     

     This is quite possibly the greatest post ever   :)

    KILLER52:

    ...so, uh, is there a Johnson Rod and is it actually connected to anything?

    - T

    :)

    r




  • dbcoop71
    23 Posts
    Mon, Aug 3 2015 8:11 AM
     

     This is quite possibly the greatest post ever   :)

    KILLER52:

    ...so, uh, is there a Johnson Rod and is it actually connected to anything?

    - T

    :)

    r




  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Mon, Aug 3 2015 8:34 AM

    andyson:
    Was that a one-off or is it repeatable?

    Definitely repeatable and very consistent. I don't know if it makes a difference but the links were already open in other windows, I just closed the main one. TBH, I was really surprised at the stutter with the main page closed. Didn't understand that.

     

    *edit- I just went through the whole routine again and that stutter I mentioned is gone. The links act the same as they do with the main window open so I would discount the original finding. CD did still outperform.

  • SHRUDE
    5,835 Posts
    Thu, Aug 6 2015 6:38 AM

    Excellent work there PhilEagles.

    I appreciate the time you put into that very well written and informative post, Bookmarked for reading again. Thank you.

    Andyson , i remember when you 'first'? announced the discovery of the 60fps and the 30fps optimal, i have forgotton most of that but remember being quite intrigued then as to why WGT chose 60fps.

    So guys  if we agree that WGT is running servers or at least there is content hosted in different locations...
    Why do we I always see the "media5.wgt.com" url  - I see this when i sit in my chair sipping my beer waiting, waiting for the next hole to load, in my status bar area and i see it in my Flash Global Storage. i had always thought this was the media servier for the images and flash files (assuming media4,3,2 & 1 were for other media types throughout the site) & may have also been guilty of  'blaming bad servers' ...  however now am led to believe it might be just the Flash servers alone?
    If i make any sense at all?

    andyson:
    The meter animation and click detection is all done locally on our computer.  Its WGT's code running on Flash within our chosen browser competing for CPU time with everything else running on our computer.

    This is why i always pause for a moment at the top of my swing. Since doing this I have rarely had a major meter stutter or lurch. I believe I am allowing my CPU to catch up..

    HOWEVER.....

    andyson:

    Unfortunately Flash prioritizes its work so that rendering the screen is done last.  All event processing is done first. Events are mouse clicks, mouse movements, timers, Incoming messages from the internet, etc. 

    So if any work comes in while the meter is running, and that work takes more than 16.6msec to complete, the meter will stutter.

    .

    So now I feel I am barking up the wrong tree with that??

    andyson:
    The other thing WGT could do is stop sending friend status updates to the game client while it's your turn to shoot

    Another dopey 'feature' when it could be used for incoming messages, being less of an occurrence than friends dropping in and out of our list and of more value.

     

    So with the sites current issues, front of mind is the reloading flash applet to log in... 

    Whats going on there? This is obviously a side effect related to something else they have tried to do. this happened about the same time the free rental weekend buggered up our inventory window.

     

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Thu, Aug 6 2015 7:30 AM

    SHRUDE:

    andyson:
    The meter animation and click detection is all done locally on our computer.  Its WGT's code running on Flash within our chosen browser competing for CPU time with everything else running on our computer.

    This is why i always pause for a moment at the top of my swing. Since doing this I have rarely had a major meter stutter or lurch. I believe I am allowing my CPU to catch up..

    HOWEVER.....

    andyson:

    Unfortunately Flash prioritizes its work so that rendering the screen is done last.  All event processing is done first. Events are mouse clicks, mouse movements, timers, Incoming messages from the internet, etc. 

    So if any work comes in while the meter is running, and that work takes more than 16.6msec to complete, the meter will stutter.

    .

    So now I feel I am barking up the wrong tree with that??

    No, no, no...keep doing it as it is one of the "hoops" or work-arounds we do to compensate for WGT's design shortcomings.

    SHRUDE:

    So with the sites current issues, front of mind is the reloading flash applet to log in... 

    Whats going on there? This is obviously a side effect related to something else they have tried to do.

    Yep, really annoying to have that flashing when you open a new tab or window to view another main site page.  My guess is the "applet" as you called it, really a swf file(s), is not being initiallized or finding the data it needs to settle on a state. But I have no idea what messed it up.

     

     

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Sat, Aug 8 2015 7:13 PM

    andyson:
    BUT!  You are probably too young to know about turntables that have adjustable speeds for playing 33 1/3 RPM or 45 RPM and even 78 RPM records.  (YJ would know them but you might need to Google turntables and records. ;-) )

    No Google necessary!  I had a turn table that had a switch for 33 1/3 rpm or 45 rpm.  I was a wee young lad of course, but I remember getting great fun out of playing 33 1/3 records on the 45 rpm speed.  Alvin and The Chipmunks singing The Jackson Five?  Yes, please.

    andyson:
    30fps would be acceptable IMO.

    Unfortunately, not for me.  I ran this simulation a couple of times and the results were about what I expected.

    My first run was in Firefox, my usual browser.  Maximized window at 1920x1080.  I restarted the browser before each run.

    Test #1: 60fps sim, 10 swings

    Results #1: Wasn't bad.  Not quite as good as WGT in full screen, but reasonably playable.

    Test #2: 30fps sim, 10 swings

    Results #2:  Was pretty bad.  The first 4 swings had a consistent meter speed. The amount of pixels the front of the meter was advancing per frame was too much.  I would guess 10-15px at a time.  I also experienced "surging" towards the end of the 10 swings.

    Overall: My precision on 60fps was quite small, on par with WGT.  My precision on 30fps was downright awful.

    ------

    Second run was in Firefox, this time with Process Explorer running in the background.

    It is significant to note here that your SWFs use 25MB, whereas WGT is using 156MB on initial load and over 200MB during round.  Your app uses about 0.05% CPU at idle, 2-3% CPU during a swing.  These is also significantly less than WGT CPU demands.  Your background, as you mentioned, is a picture rather a series of layers for all of the GUI elements.

    Again I ran Firefox, and the results were more or less the same, but not exactly the same.  60fps was still reasonably playable (but still not quite as good as the first run), 30fps was not and surged on me.

    ------

    When I launch full-screen on WGT an Adobe Flash window takes over.  I think this is because I installed the stand-alone flash player and told Windows to open all SWF's with the stand alone.  From what I understand talking to IRC buds, other users with Firefox do not experience the Adobe full-screen "takeover".  They also tell me that their graphics are terrible in full screen, even with hardware acceleration on.  These are people that have better video cards and better systems than me.

    I found this interesting, so I opened up your sims in Flash 18's standalone player and launched them in full screen and re-ran the tests.

    The 60fps meter rivaled the best performance I get on WGT with a fresh browser load.  Better than the Firefox performance overall.  The 30fps was now mostly playable, but there was still some jagged movement in the meter.  The surging was minimized, but you could see that frames were missing.

    -------

    So, when Adobe takes over, results trend upwards for me.  Running a SWF in Firefox directly is noticeably and in some cases tremendously worse.

    For me, these results only confirm that WGT is doing its best to optimize Flash (likely on an ongoing base), and regardless of what they do Flash performance will vary from user to user, sometimes without regard to specifications or hardware.

    Even simple flash apps such as these are subject to unpredictable performance and will vary for seemingly no reason at all.

    I appreciate you taking the time to build these.  Sorry for taking so long to respond.  It's been a busy week.

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