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High ding rate = cheating?

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 10:14 AM

  Nicole, thanks for your input.

  To summarize the Curious Case of MrQ:

  1. They accumulated 30 days worth of ding percentage...no one knows what shots were counted and what shots were ignored, if any.

  2. They assumed he was cheating based on ding rate over the 30 day period.

  3. They asked him to confess and to give them information about the auto-dinger he was using.  Since he wasn't using one, he couldn't confess or provide any info.

  4. They set up a "trial" round at St A from the tips with moderate winds and champ greens.  They didn't tell MrQ anything about the parameters of the trial, didn't tell him they were counting dings, and he was playing after a two week layoff and had to "twitch" the round, which caused him meter problems.

  5. He scored -8 for the 9 hole round but dinged at only half the rate of the previous 30 days.

  6. WGT then used the lesser ding rate as proof that he must have been cheating in order to achieve the higher ding rate over the previous 30 days and summarily banned him, telling him that the ban is permanent...all very Kafka-esque in my view.

  7. Some of his friends and clubmates, and others who support his cause, have posted in this thread in an effort to get WGT to consider his reinstatement.  There have also been some who think WGT did the right thing, and they have also voiced their opinions.  No one from WGT has replied, and yet they've allowed the thread to live on.

  8. As regards WGT (now Topgolf) I think the doorbell works but nobody's home.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 10:34 AM

  Nicole161106:

  Having read a previous thread that the player in question started, it would appear that no one accused him of cheating but mostly said that he was too good to be in the legend tier for so long and was milking the system.( as others still do now).

  Just on that point:

  I never had an issue with that at all.  He was simply addict who loved the game and playing with his friends.  He got near L100 (if not L100) playing mostly MP and then MPC.  Yes he then started the L Tier Big ones and yes the chit went off, but no milker of the system.  I think WGT eventually booted him to TL anyway as won a few big ones (think).  He then joined our club, and started playing  loads of RRs as it was fun in the club for him to do so.  Basically he never even looked at RRs, and frankly why should he.  MPC (his main love but went to chit disco wise and getting games) he never tried to protect a high average.  The people who got the chits with him at L Tier were simply not as good, but they never played until late level 90s with low level clubs just because they loved the game.  He got very good in just about the most honest way possible.......

  Now go a few pages back and see that post about some real super hero in L Tier.  That is milking the system looks like and from day one by an obvious restart from day 1.

  I don't have much faith they necessarily got too much of anything right about any of this one, but all done and their game their decision....

• fmagnets 3,640 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 11:05 AM

  mkg335:

  8. As regards WGT (now Topgolf) I think the doorbell works but nobody's home.

  Wait until the next update. This will be broken too... ;-)

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 11:20 AM

  fmagnets:

  mkg335:

  8. As regards WGT (now Topgolf) I think the doorbell works but nobody's home.

  Wait until the next update. This will be broken too... ;-)

  Har!  No doubt...

   

• lonniescott711 4,207 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 11:32 AM

  fatdan:

  lonniescott711:

  I cant believe that you guys are still beating this dead horse . blah blah blah There is nothing else to discuss or consider or anything to make a difference . LET IT GO !!!!!!!!!

  I seldom read threads I know are of no interest to me, perhaps u should try it?

  WGT lack of response is reason to believe that letting this thread die is exactly what they want/expect...

  There are those who believe in the "magical sweeps" software...

  and there are those that believe that due to the small number of people deleted and the fact that they were all doing really well in the RG's at the time, wgt may have succumbed to the many complaints received from long time members and displayed a twinge of "favoritism" ...

  3 important factors: The player in question was cleaning up as a legend, suddenly he is a cheat cleaning up as a Champion....was he a cheat at Legend then?

  people were screaming for the head of the famous "internet cafe" player for a solid year, then suddenly he is gone, hmmmmm.....why not a year ago?

  a 49 at CB with tough conditions I'm sure got wgt a few emails/messages/complaints, even from people who don't play in 1000 cr RG's ....

  and some just don't care either way!

  But hey, thanks for giving the thread a bump, much appreciated!

   

  @ dan    It doesnt matter what you believe you dont know any more than the next person . I have followed this thread from the start and responded more than once to it . For all of the posts on Qs behalf I have yet to read the most important one . The one that comes from someone who really knows Q in the real world . The one who has hung out with them been a guest in their home and vice versa .

  Some one who can really speak on the true quality of Q as a person . How about some one who has actually stood over Q`s shoulder and watched them play in the absolute privacy of their home . Bottom line this is a game and you dont really know anyone unless you actually meet them and engage with them in the real world . Even then you still dont know them .You cant say what a person will or wont do at any time until they do it .

  So WGT made their decision and they didnt contact you to seek your approval . You will also notice they have yet to respond and explain that decision to any or all who feel they should .That tells me they dont give a flying flip about how you feel or what you or others think about it at all .

  None of you have all of the facts nor the answers to the questions . All that you have is one side of the story which was told by the accused . Personally I could care less because whatever they either did or didnt do it never affected my game . I havent lost anything gained anything or even noticed or missed their being absent . my 2 cents whether you like it or not . :-)

  And I wasnt bumping the thread I was responding to Jimbo on pg. 31 when I saw that this thread was still going .on . Thank you very much .

   

• ct690911 7,205 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 11:50 AM

   The one that comes from someone who really knows Q in the real world . The one who has hung out with them been a guest in their home and vice versa .

  Lonnie; I apologize for "borrowing" a small portion of your post, but I am using it a relevant segue into the whereabouts of Lily (SweetiePie).

  She has over 2300 "friends" on her list; been MIA since June 6, and nary a hint at what might have happened to her. A few people have posted possibilities, but they seem remote, at best.

  I realize that "friends" has an entirely different meaning on here, but certainly out of 2300, someone must know her well? 

  Ironically, I'm not even on her friends list, but know her from these forums. All indications were that she was responding to treatment and soon going for another...trail ends there. 

  ct

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 11:54 AM

  lonniescott711:

  All that you have is one side of the story which was told by the accused .

  I think Jay (another thread and worth reading) touched on this point well in two comments: 

  jayw4862:

  The SS caught 4-5 people, and that was that. Pfft!!! 

   

   And that farce about ding rates still irks me. It's BS. WGT would have been better off telling him "we know you were cheating by using a program that is against our T&C" than to bring up ding%. I've come to the conclusion that they're FOS and made up some stupid reason only because he wouldn't admit to what kind of program he used "so they could add it/check for it". 

  lonniescott711:

  So WGT made their decision and they didnt contact you to seek your approval . You will also notice they have yet to respond and explain that decision to any or all who feel they should .That tells me they dont give a flying flip about how you feel or what you or others think about it at all .

  No one was / is arguing that point :)

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 12:37 PM

  lonniescott711:

  @ dan

  blah blah blah edited out

  None of you have all of the facts nor the answers to the questions . All that you have is one side of the story which was told by the accused .

  Actually we have BOTH sides of the story and again you miss the point of all this!

  Who cares what Tom is like in real life, there are criminals who work for law enforcement now, and spiritual leaders who rape and molest, nobody knows who the good guys are nowadays!

  The fact is WGT didn't know anything either, they admitted it, they banned him with an off the cuff assumption, then went to the "ding %" as a last resort! I said it before, had WGT said in their emails to Tom, "Look dude, don't even act like your innocent, we have data that says that without doubt, you cheat, and your banned", that would have been the end of it for me!

  I could care less because whatever they either did or didnt do it never affected my game . I havent lost anything gained anything or even noticed or missed their being absent . my 2 cents whether you like it or not . :-)

  I'm sure this doesn't bother you one bit, any more than you being banned would bother me, but if it would happen to you I hope somebody would fight for you under these same circumstances, and, if you read the thread it could, they can do whatever they want!!! So it really does affect your game more than you think, it just hasn't as yet!

  And I wasnt bumping the thread I was responding to Jimbo on pg. 31 when I saw that this thread was still going .on . Thank you very much .

  Maybe you weren't, but you did, twice in fact, so again Thank You...

   

   

• lonniescott711 4,207 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 1:16 PM

  fatdan:

  lonniescott711:

  @ dan

  blah blah blah edited out

  None of you have all of the facts nor the answers to the questions . All that you have is one side of the story which was told by the accused .

  Actually we have BOTH sides of the story and again you miss the point of all this!

  Who cares what Tom is like in real life, there are criminals who work for law enforcement now, and spiritual leaders who rape and molest, nobody knows who the good guys are nowadays!

  The fact is WGT didn't know anything either, they admitted it, they banned him with an off the cuff assumption, then went to the "ding %" as a last resort! I said it before, had WGT said in their emails to Tom, "Look dude, don't even act like your innocent, we have data that says that without doubt, you cheat, and your banned", that would have been the end of it for me!

  I could care less because whatever they either did or didnt do it never affected my game . I havent lost anything gained anything or even noticed or missed their being absent . my 2 cents whether you like it or not . :-)

  I'm sure this doesn't bother you one bit, any more than you being banned would bother me, but if it would happen to you I hope somebody would fight for you under these same circumstances, and, if you read the thread it could, they can do whatever they want!!! So it really does affect your game more than you think, it just hasn't as yet!

  And I wasnt bumping the thread I was responding to Jimbo on pg. 31 when I saw that this thread was still going .on . Thank you very much .

  Maybe you weren't, but you did, twice in fact, so again Thank You...

   

  No I didnt miss anything . Its WGTs game and they decide who gets to play it  You missed the point of the fact that you dont really know Q so you cant say what he will or wont do . You cant say as to the real truth of his guilt and thats the point . WGT gave them an answer as to why they were banned period . You or we may not like the answer but do you really think they would go into true detail about how they know Q was cheating ?

  Go play a practice round under the same conditions and see if you can hit the ding as much as they gave Q credit for . If you ever take time and really study this game and not just play it you will be surprised at what you have been missing .

  As for WGT kicking out of the game for cheating that wont happen . One because Im a miss the ding player and 2 I dont play for credits or the monthly events either . Other than practice rounds I dont even play outsied of my cc but if I do its stroke play and thats all ..

   

   

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Thu, Aug 4 2016 1:51 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  DodgyPutter:

  My point about the round is; you will also have noted in the "prev 1020 pages" that there is some confusion as to what shots WGT use to arrive at their 40%/80%, surely this round can provide the answer:  WGT say his ding percentage was 40% during it, simply count how many drives, approaches and putts he did and didn't ding.

  As we agree 1020 pages:)...............try to catch jumpin jack flash v often after two weeks off squealing oiled pig jobbing..............No dispute that part was a joke, not on any of the 1,203,0000 pages :) EDIT: Anyone else readin' do go through it all with -8 thru 9 in mind, IMHO:)

  And as mkg said 

  "To summarize the Curious Case of MrQ:

  1. They accumulated 30 days worth of ding percentage...no one knows what shots were counted and what shots were ignored, if any."

  I've no idea why you quoted me then didn't address my point.  mkg again says, and as the first point, that no one knows what shots were counted.  Above and below for anyone with access to the round is how you find out.  How many dinged/missed ding drives, approaches and putts were there in the round that wgt counted as 40% dings?

  The -8 may be important to you, finding out what the 40% means is much more relevant to why he was banned.

  Jimbog1964:

  As we agree 1020 pages:)......

  Quotation marks are my friend :-)