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Is virtual equipment out pacing good play?

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Wed, Aug 26 2009 11:08 AM

  Lee nailed it.

  The reason for the low putts per round is due to the mismatch of 9/18 holes and the fact that WGT didn't seem to do anything about it.    And even if they did, the putting stats would still be screwed up for the players who have hundreds of ranked rounds.

  WGT should have reset the stats once they released 18 hole play.   The stats in this game are practically useless in relation to how the game is now for a large portion of players here.

• Weirsy 84 Posts

  Wed, Aug 26 2009 11:49 AM

  Hmmmm somethings not right with the WGT stats I suspect.....cause it throws my whole putting theory out the window ! Extreme outlyers !

  Here's some stats from the Memorial
  
  Stat                                             Field        Lee             Tibbets
  
  Putting Inside 5 Feet             96.6%        47.35%      48.76%
  Putting 5-10 Feet                   70.0%        17.29%      18.07%
  Putting from 10-15 Feet        46.2%        9.28%        10.33%
  Putting from 20-25 Feet        20.0%        0.84%         0.95%

• Joeyola 1,210 Posts

  Wed, Aug 26 2009 12:33 PM

  It would be interesting to see how the averages look if our player stats were based on 4 single play rounds like the pro tours.  But the way we are leaning, the best averages would still be in the fantasy range.  I'm sure playing the same courses over and over has affected this as well. 

  I wrote the original post and kudos for this site...but I fear what our game will look like in a year or two...wind credits maybe?  Hopefully WGT is paying attention and I suspect they are.

  Ok, enough of my crying, lets tee it up!    

  Joey (0;\

• Infinito3010 3,689 Posts

  Wed, Aug 26 2009 2:32 PM

  The only way to ensure the game is challenging is to have randomized pin locations.  The pin locations would be the same for each tournament.  However, ranked rounds would be randomized.  Each round is different, but realistic.  Thus, no one would be capable of memorizing how a putt breaks no matter how many times they played it.  Me, I treat each putt as I have never seen it before. 

• thunderbird 381 Posts

  Thu, Aug 27 2009 2:32 PM

  Basing tour stats to wgt stats is quite irrelevant.  Tour players play different courses every week.  They have different pin positions and different green speeds.  I know because I have played and caddied on these courses. 

  Here in WGT land having the same pin positions allows the better players to remember what every single putt does.  Look at Avatar, Niv, and tibbs putting percentages or just play a round with them they know the break and even I do to.  It is highly repetitive.  I think the scores will go down because more and more people will know which way each putt breaks. 

  Now here is where the scores might not be so far off than the occasional 55.  If you took a tour player and brought them to there home course where they play frequently and know the greens inside and out.  They will shoot in the 50's.  You probably don't believe me but I remember reading about Tiger shooting 58 at his home course in FL before the masters a while ago.  I used to play with George McNeil, Nolan Henke, and few other tour players from the past and I have seem them on a course there familiar with and shoot 10 or 12 under.  These guys are not top ten players they are journeymen on the tour. 

  Top tier players are going to shoot low scores and that is that.  I think the game is fair and the distances are fair.  Do we need to hit it longer than we are?  Probably not.  Is the equipment out pacing good play, no.  Is the equipment allowing for people to get better yes.  My best round at Bethpage with the Tour Starters was 64.  I didn't even want to try the new clubs but I kept seeing Avatarlee shooting low rounds with his Ping Irons.  <--fast meter.  I decided I would try them out and after two months of practicing all my clubs have fast meters and I am shooting better.  I get better performance from the clubs and I know the difference. 

  The faster meter clubs demand you to perform better.  The other clubs out there have made the game easier but have also gave you the option to really hit some horrific shots.  Like thirty yards right when you miss the big stick.  I actually miss what seems like a lot more fairways then the top guys.  But it makes the game fun.  I think that more people are spending more time on here then before and there are alot more people playing on this site.  Just look at the leaderboards.  There are names of people who were not on this site three months ago but have 100 to 150 rounds.  That is a lot of time like 75 hours and that it saying they have not quit rounds.

• Infinito3010 3,689 Posts

  Thu, Aug 27 2009 3:18 PM

  This is not to poke any discourtesy in anyone's direction.  However, during the qualifications for the Virtual U.S. Open playing from the back tees and not reaching the fairways on some holes, a 64 was out of the question with the starter clubs.  Eventually, even playing from the back tees I was able to shoot a par round.  However, that would be the exception and not the norm. 

  Here in WGT land, 58's and 55's are becoming the norm, and in my astute opinion should be the exception.  I have played countless rounds for the purpose of becoming competitive with the "Avatarlee , Tibbets, Thunderbird, to just name a few"  

  To some people the challenge of getting up and down from a long putt is no longer apparent.  The skill level obviously displayed by the top players are apparent.  So, lets not make it to easy. 

  All of us cannot afford to keep up with the latest and greatest in clubs.  I thought I was doing well with the Rapture Woods, TaylorMade irons and wedges.   Then all of a sudden a 275 yard driver comes onto the market.  Sort of blows your mind, because that can represent a 4 club drop in your approach. That is significant when you factor the amount of roll one gets with the longer irons, discounting wind conditions and direction.  So is virtual equipment outpacing good play, it sure is! Lets keep it competitive and give the rest something to aspire to.

• DougBieker 333 Posts

  Mon, Sep 14 2009 6:40 AM

  I think perhaps the biggest reason that the putting stats for everyone is so good is that the hole locations do not change.  I have not upgraded to anything but a driver and that was just to the Starter and have routinely shot under par.  Although at this point I think I am pretty much maxed out on my ability to go low until I shell out some bucks and get the good drivers and wedges.

• JTxpress 411 Posts

  Tue, Sep 15 2009 1:40 PM

  It's always something!! I remember back in the spring every one was calling for more and better clubs.  WGT finally steps up and gives us more options, and now people are complaining that the clubs give to much advantage. First you want em, now you don't? Make up your mind.

      I for one really enjoy my new clubs. They have helped my game immensely. I have also noticed a whole slew of masters that are getting ever closer to Lee, Tibbets and the top players. I don't think it's going to be very long now before there is a whole lot more competition for tourney wins, WATCH OUT PEEPS!!!  HERE WE COME! :-))))

• Joeyola 1,210 Posts

  Fri, Sep 18 2009 3:10 AM

  I understand what everyone is saying, but I'd like to see this game be more about skill and less about the equipment. Everyone knows, when we purchase upgraded equipment, we are simply paying to play an easier game.  The best players will still be the ones that think outside the box and put in the most stick time.     

• 33 Posts

  Fri, Sep 18 2009 5:25 AM

  You got it right. What is winning? Winning is SKILL, not equipment. Those of you who think that beating someone with reg equipment is an accomplishment have a serious head problem. Fine, you want drivers that hit 300, then play with those that have the same driver. At least you will get enjoyment of having the skill to win, BUT TO PLAY A MATCH WITH THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO PLAY THIS GAME FOR THE FUN AND INCREASING THEIR SKILL THROUGH NORMAL MEANS, IS IMMORAL. It is the story of the high school bully, and you are behaving as such. WE CHOOSE TO CHEAT, AND I REFUSE TO PLAY WITH THOSE WITH BOUGHT EQUIPMENT.