pineharst hole no 4

• dovidhir 1 Posts

  Sun, Jan 1 2017 2:30 AM

  How can this hole be par 4 its 565 for legends and no chance to reach the green in 2?

   

• phred952 2,714 Posts

  Mon, Jan 2 2017 7:27 PM

  dovidhir:

  How can this hole be par 4 its 565 for legends and no chance to reach the green in 2?

   

  Read this quote from WGT:

  Pinehurst No. 2

  Pinehurst No. 2 Hole 4

  The longest par 4 on the course will play shorter because of the downhill tee shot, which has been restored to the original angle that Donald Ross intended. This hole, which played as a par 5 in both previous U.S. Opens, features a dogleg-left tee shot with the fairway canting from left to right. The large green is receptive to a long approach shot, and it is unusual for Pinehurst in that it slopes from right to left.   

  Equipment choice is obviously critical on this hole.

• Schlieffen99 225 Posts

  Tue, Jan 3 2017 9:35 AM

  Yeah, and a huge behind wind, lol...

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Tue, Jan 3 2017 11:13 AM

  What they don't say is:

  Par4 is from the last USO (2014),

  the length is from the USO 1999 when it played as a Par5.

• phred952 2,714 Posts

  Tue, Jan 3 2017 5:34 PM

  alosso,

  Actually WGT does mention that in the description above.  

  Pinehurst No. 2

   

  Pinehurst No. 2 Hole 4

  The longest par 4 on the course will play shorter because of the downhill tee shot, which has been restored to the original angle that Donald Ross intended. This hole, which played as a par 5 in both previous U.S. Opens,

   

  Pinehurst #2 website shows the following distances for Holes 4 & 5:

  HOLE	PAR	US OPEN	BLUE	WHITE	GREEN	RED

  4	4	529	474	434	424	414
  5	5	576	508	462	364	274

  If you go to this link it now shows the way Pinehurst #2 Holes 4 and 5 play now:

   http://www.pinehurst.com/golf/courses/no-2/

  Also the following link shows the scorecard, which explains the distances for the green and red tees, as #4 plays as the Par 5, and #5 plays as the Par 4:

  http://cdn1.pinehurst.com/content/uploads/2013/08/PinehurstNo.2-Scorecards2014-9314.pdf

  Hope this helps.

• alosso 21,072 Posts

  Wed, Jan 4 2017 12:12 AM

  This hole, which played as a par 5 in both previous U.S. Opens,

  As I stated, it does NOT say that the current length of hole #4 belongs to the former Par 5 set-up - see the winner's scorecard from 1999 (hole 4 = Par 5, 566 yds) as a proof:

  

  2014, it was a Par 4 of 529 yards, as you showed.

  So, I don't get your point. WGT's setting of PIN #4 as a Par 4 of 565 yards is far off any USO set-up, breaching their goal to recreate the Championship settings.

  I've been there, done that survey when PIN was released here. I even recorded the playing lengths of hole #4 during the 2014 USO which were around and below 530 yds, far shorter than WGT's set-up. It's down in the forums...

• phred952 2,714 Posts

  Wed, Jan 4 2017 4:08 AM

  alosso,

  Sorry I mis-read your original comment.  You are correct.  It does not say that they got info crossed up when they created the course.  That one makes me wonder how you could spend the effort and money and get it that wrong.  Faulty research, or what?

  It is interesting that when you go to Pine#2 thru the WGT Community - Golf Courses tab and select #4 there is a Hole preview  video with a Caddy at the course who states that the hole is 530 yards long.  Huh?  

  As was said before equipment choice (and a tail wind) are critical.

   

• HackWilson1930 1,437 Posts

  Wed, Jan 4 2017 6:27 AM

  Whether #4 is a par 4 or a par 5 is inconsequential. If you play from the back tee, you are playing the same distance as every other back tee player on WGT.  Your average score is built on your total score for a round, not how much over or under par you are. Accept the fact that it will be difficult to birdie #4 and go on to #5 which provides more opportunities for a birdie. Just remember that Pinehurst has domed greens and approach shot placement is just as important has hole length.

• Robert1893 7,722 Posts

  Wed, Jan 4 2017 6:39 AM

  Regardless of all of that, par is just a number. Whether the hole is a par 4 or a par 5 has no effect on one's overall scoring average. As I'm sure people in this thread already know, it's what the person actually scores that determines the player's overall average, not + par.
  
  Unless I'm missing something, the only negative effect I see it having is on one's individual stats. For example, what one's scoring average is for the par 4s or the number of birdies, pars, and bogies a person has made. Other than that, as I see it, the effect is more psychological than real. 
  
  There is no doubt that the hole is a challenge and requires a person to have a good short game. I still bogey the hole about half the time.  

• JimbeauC 5,835 Posts

  Thu, Jan 5 2017 3:54 PM

  Robert1893:

  negative effect I see it having is on one's individual stats.

  I've been trying for ages to get my one putts to 50%, so maybe it's a plus for me. 

  :^)

  If I recall correctly, I have a grand total of one bird on this hole. Yep. Tailwind.