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toughest holes

• KodiVet 13 Posts

  Fri, Oct 23 2009 8:24 PM

  Hell, I just love the game and I'm looking forward to newer versions after the beta.

• oppy 286 Posts

  Thu, Oct 29 2009 4:52 AM

  TarheelsRule:

  Having played both courses, my opinion is that BethPage on this site plays much more difficult than it really is.  Kiawah does have firm fairways and allows you to have the ball roll more but the tees that I am on at Kiawah (at the pro level) are not even the tees that I play there in real life, I play one or two sets back from there.  Kiawah can stretch to 7900 yards, you have to get permission to play those.  BethPage on the pro level is back pretty far and unfair in many places.  I would like to see them get courses that are more playable and true to real play.

   

  I would have to disagree, i think bethpage is as hard as it plays in the game. with the only exception being that they dont keep the greens rolling as fast as they are in the game as they are for normal public play. bethpage black is not unfair at all, in fact the winner for the open was lucas glover at 3 or 4 under par. if they were scoring like they do at winged foot then it would be a different story. bethpage is a great and fair test of golf, anyone who says otherwise is making excuses for poor play

   

   

• txfrog 49 Posts

  Thu, Nov 5 2009 10:56 AM

  millidarcy:

  BPB#15 is definitely my toughest but I love playing it, the putts are crazy but fun. I'm happy w/ a bogey. I think it's difficulty is reflective of the real world - I believe it was the hole that played the toughest at the Open. Tiger went dbl bogey - bogey - par - bogey on 15.

  I find those crazy putts to be anything but fun.  Playing the 9 hole unlimited I've come to that hole at -4 now twice this week only to double bogey AFTER lying 3 on the green.  Factor in the fast greens this week and its just dumb luck to make a putt > 2ft. 

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:23 AM

  igiveup:

  BPB # 15 would be better is the ball actually rolled down the slope correctly.... it always seems to stop about 15 ft above the hole.... The green has a severe gradient and the ball stops on the slope... go figure...

   

  Well, it depends on how you plan on playing the hole.

  If you lay up on your 2nd shot to 50-90 yards away, use max topspin and aim to the left of the pin.    Just make sure you make it to the green on the fly and don't hit it too far (the last thing you want on that hole is a 30+ foot putt on a severe downhill slope).

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:32 AM

  Topspin works for the fairway attempt to hit the green with your 2nd shot but can cause problems with your iron from layup position.  Topspin=forward roll so it would actually fight the slope and run out of gas.  Use back spin and hit past the flag to be sure of coming back.

   

   

  YJ

   

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:59 AM

  YankeeJim:

  Topspin works for the fairway attempt to hit the green with your 2nd shot but can cause problems with your iron from layup position.  Topspin=forward roll so it would actually fight the slope and run out of gas.  Use back spin and hit past the flag to be sure of coming back.

   

   

  YJ

   

   

  It could be different for different clubs, but with the tour starter wedges, you will come off the hill with topspin if you layup on the 2nd shot.   The ball hits the green, rolls up the hill, comes almost to a complete stop, and then begins it's slow downhill roll.    If played properly, the ball will end up within a few feet of the hole (I haven't been able to sink it yet for bird).

   

  edit:   Of course, if hit too hard past the hole, you'll end up with the most imposing downhill putt ever.

   

• danohi50 1,020 Posts

  Thu, Nov 5 2009 12:48 PM

  oppy:

  TarheelsRule:

  Having played both courses, my opinion is that BethPage on this site plays much more difficult than it really is.  Kiawah does have firm fairways and allows you to have the ball roll more but the tees that I am on at Kiawah (at the pro level) are not even the tees that I play there in real life, I play one or two sets back from there.  Kiawah can stretch to 7900 yards, you have to get permission to play those.  BethPage on the pro level is back pretty far and unfair in many places.  I would like to see them get courses that are more playable and true to real play.

   

  I would have to disagree, i think bethpage is as hard as it plays in the game. with the only exception being that they dont keep the greens rolling as fast as they are in the game as they are for normal public play. bethpage black is not unfair at all, in fact the winner for the open was lucas glover at 3 or 4 under par. if they were scoring like they do at winged foot then it would be a different story. bethpage is a great and fair test of golf, anyone who says otherwise is making excuses for poor play

   

   

  Tarheels is spot on here..

  You have to remember that historically  BP is one of the most difficult courses in the world..check the ratings sometime..I thought even though there are better courses out there WGT did a nice service bringing this course to us..most of us will never be able to play it..and the challenge of this course is fun...good # can be shot here when my thinking and timing are perfect  dont happen often for me  but thats the real challenge..

• TarheelsRule 5,566 Posts

  Thu, Nov 5 2009 4:40 PM

  I guess that Oppy and I will have to agree to disagree on BPB.  The fact that we are playing this course on the game and have a number of holes that can't be reached in regulation tell you that something is not correct.  Open conditions give you great green speed and difficult rough but they also give you firm and closely mowed greens, granted they are not as wide but they will roll.  At 7,146 par 70 BPB is 280 yards shorter than the US Open was in 2009, I'm pretty sure that none of the players were not able to reach the greens in regulation after hitting a perfect tee ball.  My arguement is that it doesn't play to scale with other courses.  We have the Ocean course at 6,818 and a Par 72.  You can move that one back to 7,800 yards if you want but to compare to the BPB level it should move back to 7,400 yards.  The discussion was that if our desire is to have courses that play equally difficult, then we can't have one with tees and a par very different than another and keep them level.  Having also played the Old Course at St. Andrews, I can tell you that it is a walk in the park compared to either of the other two and will be viewed as very easy.  The defense of St Andrews is the weather (not the wind but the weather), Kiawah is mainly the wind and the length.  The greens at St Andrews are slower than your local course and often being in the 'rough' is an advantage to being in the firm short fairways.

• daishi2325 8 Posts

  Thu, Nov 5 2009 10:32 PM

  BPB 15..... enough said 5, 7 are hard, but 15 is insanity with that front pin position

   

  Kiawahs hardest is definitely 17.... It leads the way in intimidation in the stroke play game by a long shot.

  We dont really get the Brunt of what Kiawah is really like because you can't get random winds and the soggyness of a beach course to really play in

• oppy 286 Posts

  Fri, Nov 6 2009 4:59 AM

  TarheelsRule:

  I guess that Oppy and I will have to agree to disagree on BPB.  The fact that we are playing this course on the game and have a number of holes that can't be reached in regulation tell you that something is not correct.  Open conditions give you great green speed and difficult rough but they also give you firm and closely mowed greens, granted they are not as wide but they will roll.  At 7,146 par 70 BPB is 280 yards shorter than the US Open was in 2009, I'm pretty sure that none of the players were not able to reach the greens in regulation after hitting a perfect tee ball.  My arguement is that it doesn't play to scale with other courses.  We have the Ocean course at 6,818 and a Par 72.  You can move that one back to 7,800 yards if you want but to compare to the BPB level it should move back to 7,400 yards.  The discussion was that if our desire is to have courses that play equally difficult, then we can't have one with tees and a par very different than another and keep them level.  Having also played the Old Course at St. Andrews, I can tell you that it is a walk in the park compared to either of the other two and will be viewed as very easy.  The defense of St Andrews is the weather (not the wind but the weather), Kiawah is mainly the wind and the length.  The greens at St Andrews are slower than your local course and often being in the 'rough' is an advantage to being in the firm short fairways.

  Let me point out another couple things to you tarheels. Bethpage Black never played to its full length during the us open 09 because of the wet conditions. Since the fairways were not giving any roll, the holes were shortened. The 524 yard par 7th, never played to the back tee, it was played up every day, as well as the 10th hole. Those are two specific examples, however this was done on a number of holes. As for the second sentence i highlighted, if you cannot reach the green with a "perfect" tee ball then you must be using starters. a guarantee you every hole can be reached in regulation with a perfect shot.