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The XP Grind

• EricW55 36 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2021 2:09 AM

  I would sincerely ask the community, and WGT, to consider the way the game has evolved and how it impacts on newer players coming into this great game.

  Based on (all be it) old forum threads, players have lamented the "XP Grind" for a decade or more.  I found some old threads bemoaning the grind to level 91 to unlock the best driver.  That grind is now level 102!  Or to put it into perspective, 2,772,424 xp as opposed to 565,315.  In other words, the "grind" has become 5 times greater.

  Some of the responses (back in the day) to the grind to level 91 were that it took about that long to make the Legend tee's so it was about right.  Nowadays, with so much excellent information available on how to play the game, newer players are making the back tee's far earlier.  I, as a humble example, made Legend in my fifth week at level 72.

  So Legend is now attainable in 1/3rd of the time, but the grind is 5 times greater?

  I, and I would imagine many others, love the competition golf offers.  In real golf handicaps apply to even the playing field.  In WGT it is (supposed to be) the tier system.  The problem is, since Tour Pro, more and more level 102+ players are encountered.  In the Legend Tier the leaderboards are full of them.  That is as it should be and they've earnt it.  But what are the level 90's, 80's, and (help them please) 70's to do?

  The (bitter) irony is that much has been done to combat multi accounters.  One big reason being that the community and WGT recognise that it just isn't right, or fair, to have newer less experienced players forced to compete with vastly more experienced players.  I ask, what is the difference?  And there is a difference.  The multi account cheat competes with the same equipment as the newer players.  In this case, the vastly more experienced players play with 3 or 4 generations better equipment!

  There needs to be a "better way" to get to a level playing field.  It has taken me 3 months of playing multiple rounds per day and night to accrue over 300,000 XP.  I need 8 times more.  24 months of grind simply to achieve an even playing field - in golf - is in my view unreasonable.  12 months with a premium membership isn't anymore reasonable.  In real golf it is achieved after submitting a few signed cards.

  In one of those "back in the day" threads it was felt that opening up the best equipment too soon would result in players leaving.  They'd have nothing left to play for.   I believe the current situation is one of the reasons players give up on the game.  The "grind" feels too much like work, not entertainment.  The goal always seems too distant.  I also believe, based on the number of active players at and way beyond level 102, that unlocking all of the equipment is not an end but rather a beginning.

  I'd like to begin soon.  Please?

• alosso 21,070 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2021 11:17 AM

  IMHO, there's no way around it but a few to deal with it.

  I don't count on WGT to change anything. It's their business model, and the grind buys their SUVs. I don't think that they put a priority on the high levels but on the low levels and tiers where clubs and balls are sold "to the masses". No clubs above 103 and no level(!) about 200 speaks volumes!

  Players have the choice to adapt:

  - Grind your teeth in the ladder, receive a burn-out and leave.

  - Dance around, become bored and leave.

  - check the game out, earn some "money" and stay or leave.

  - Discover the fun, friends(?) and enjoy the game (and climb the ladder)

  or find another way to play it!

• SamSpayed 5,016 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2021 1:39 PM

  EricW55:

  I'd like to begin soon.  Please?

  Begin what, exactly?  Unlocking equipment to be more competitive?

  You've only been playing since Nov 2020 and you're already a Legend.  You have decent stats with the equipment you have.  Of your 340 ranked rounds, you have 62 Top 10's and 157 Top 100's.  I'd say you're already very competitive... even against players who have been playing longer (and are using better equipment). 

  And you do have the ability to buy some more better equipment right now that will probably help you.  The Titleist Vokey SM7 56° Wedge (L76+), the Callaway MAVRIK Pro Iron Set (L85+), and a better 3W for example.  And you've already earned $220.25 in credits in your short time here, so you can certainly afford them.

  I guess I just don't get why you're complaining.  

• EricW55 36 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2021 2:32 PM

  SamSpayed:

   And you've already earned $220.25 in credits in your short time here, so you can certainly afford them.

  I guess I just don't get why you're complaining.  

  Sam, a couple of points in response.

  If you pay 200 credits to enter a tournament and get back 50, WGT calls that a win of $0.50.  I call it a loss of 150.  I have paid for a LOT more credits than I've "won".

  With respect, you have earnings of $53.05 in 4 years.  Perhaps what is necessary for being competitive isn't really your area of expertise.  

   

• Robert1893 7,719 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2021 5:05 PM

  EricW55:

  With respect, you have earnings of $53.05 in 4 years Perhaps what is necessary for being competitive isn't really your area of expertise.  

   

  

• SamSpayed 5,016 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2021 7:03 PM

  EricW55:

  If you pay 200 credits to enter a tournament and get back 50, WGT calls that a win of $0.50.  I call it a loss of 150.  I have paid for a LOT more credits than I've "won".

  Very good point.  I don't play any pay-to-play tournaments so I forgot about that.

  EricW55:

  Perhaps what is necessary for being competitive isn't really your area of expertise.  

  Perhaps you're right.  I have far fewer Top 10's and Top 100's than you do, and you've only been playing for 3 months.  Congratulations on the immensity of your success.

  @Robert - LOL 😂😂😂

• MrCReePaR 8 Posts

  Wed, Feb 3 2021 11:33 PM

  Can't really complain about wgt calling 50 credits a win even though you paid 200 credits in the first place. Because you did win some back you won 50 but its not their fault you did not get a better score than what you got at the end of your round/s on the course/s you played on. See how it works is whoever has the lowest score is 1st and wins the biggest purse and deserves it 2nd and 3rd get the next highest and probably win more than the entry fee, and yeah sometimes maybe even up to the 10th place holder.....but the rest that don't do so well......yup that's the majority of us and with respect, this obviously includes yourself. It is not their fault for you deciding whether or not you are willing to pay for said tournament. They also are not responsible for your skills in how well you can personally play this game nor do they promise that you will won't be stomped while competing with other opponents in the tournament that you paid for. You should take it as a win even if you only get 5 credits back out of 200 because there's usually a ton of players and you scored within the top 100 thats good brotha if there is 1000 players you made top 10%. Or if you are still feeling like you lost because you only got 50 out of 200 coins back. Try this approach and Instead of getting frustrated by losing make it your motivation like most professional do in any profession from sports to business ect. And when you get better than you are now you will move up in the rankings because of how much your game improved because you have to have some wisdom like knowing every little detail on the courses you are going to play in and what to do with any possible lie of the ball ad wisdom to go along with all of your skill and you'll be better off than now for sure. Look I am not the best at the game and don't give a rats ass about being the best cause I just really enjoy the game and bullshiting with friends or new people I meet during the course of my time playing. But here is my last piece of advice and its just advice...but it may sting your ego a bit.....but don't spend as much money on tournaments if you know that your not good enough to make money back on. Play small tournaments where all the big money winners don't usually go because its not worth their time or effort playing the petty $10-20 tournaments and see how you do in those. Well best of luck and hope you have a great day/night whatever time it is while you read this. 

   

   

• BPeterson8256 2,912 Posts

  Thu, Feb 4 2021 7:22 AM

  EricW55:

  I'd like to begin soon.  Please?

  Then begin.

  You are obviously a very good player that is learning fast, but if you think Equipment that is better than what is available to you now will suddenly make you more competitive, then that is just one more thing you need to learn.

  The only club that ever drastically improved my scoring is already in your bag. You are at level 86 and a legend that shoots very nice scores. I am not sure how that is much of a "grind" after about 3 months of play. I do understand your frustration. We have all been there. This is a fun game though. Take some time to enjoy it as you move up.

  And speaking to the WGT business model, I think it is brilliant. They are a business, and businesses are designed to make money. They literally have players begging to buy things that are not yet available to them. Then they have those same players buying other things to get them buy until they can buy the things they really want.  If that is not brilliant, I don't know what is. And before anyone speaks of how greedy that seems, you must remember that they offer their base product absolutely FREE. 

  Be patient, you'll get there. 

  Brett

  P.S. For the record...

  EricW55:

  With respect, you have earnings of $53.05 in 4 years.  Perhaps what is necessary for being competitive isn't really your area of expertise.  

  You are sadly mistaken if you think you can tell how competitive a person is by one misleading statistic. I have had the pleasure of playing with Scott (aka SamSpayed) several times recently. You will be very fortunate to ever be that good, and that competitive when playing with others.

• Robert1893 7,719 Posts

  Thu, Feb 4 2021 8:12 AM

  BPeterson8256:

  You are sadly mistaken if you think you can tell how competitive a person is by one misleading statistic. I have had the pleasure of playing with Scott (aka SamSpayed) several times recently. You will be very fortunate to ever be that good, and that competitive when playing with others.

  It's also a logical error to take the stance that a player needs to have a certain level of earnings or wins in competition to understand what is necessary to be competitive. 

  For example, I think I have a basic understanding of what it takes to be competitive. My earnings are lower than Sam's. But in my time on here, I have only entered 2 tournaments that had any payouts. If players don't enter, then they won't earn. I've always been able to get plenty of credits in other ways. 

  Regardless, figuring out what it takes to be competitive is not all that difficult. In fact, a person doesn't even need to play at all. All the person would really need to do is watch and pay attention to videos of the elite players as they play their matches. There are plenty of those videos out there.
  
  Or a person could read the forums and the advice that is posted by the better players. There's  plenty of good advice out there. 

  This ain't rocket surgery. 

• EricW55 36 Posts

  Thu, Feb 4 2021 9:13 PM

  I gotta chuckle.

  My OP was about seeking competition on a level playing field.  Shouldn't have been too controversial.  Only way is with same or similar spec'd equipment.  Seemed pretty logical.  Currently the only way to achieve that is with 2.7 million xp's (which is lvl 102, I'll be happy at lvl 97).  Full stop.  Looking forward to the first.  Think the second is a bit unreasonable.  Ain't brain surgery, or rocket science (couldn't resist).

  Apart from Brett every other opinion has been cast by openly non competition players telling me all about competition. LOL.  When nothing is on the line, nothing much matters.  No pressure.  Put some money on the line and take on the best in high winds on champ greens then get back to me.  If it isn't your thing, that's fine too.  But trying to pontificate about something you have clearly steered clear of is....entertaining.

  Player after player who have armed themselves with the better equipment are telling me better equipment doesn't make a difference!?!  Could be construed as a tad hypocritical.  If it makes no difference, AND you don't compete, why did you buy it.....?

  In my opinion and limited experience, some courses, and some others under benign conditions?  No problem.  But some courses and some holes in high winds - the longer driver alone can mean the difference between a high % birdie and a low %.  Some fairways have been devilishly designed that way so the shorter landing zones are uphill.

  On the champ greens the 4.5 spin rated irons are a huge boon in comparison to the 3.5 currently available to me and they in turn allow higher % birdies because more pins can be attacked directly with consistent results.  Think back to the first wedge you bought and what a revelation and shot saver that was.  Same thing.

  That's why the best players use 'em.  I also suspect it is why the big eTour's are played matchplay - so they get the same wind on each hole as their opponent ensuring as even a playing field as possible when the big bucks are on the line.  Not outrageous of me or any other player to desire a fair competition.