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What Happened to the 2 Big Monthly's!?

Thu, Feb 10 2022 4:34 PM (205 replies)
  • MioKontic
    4,654 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 5:12 AM

    birchi:

    They were a great competition where you had to bring your absolute A-game because they are rare (once a month), so most top players give it a try, are single play and only paid out the top 3, so you better play a near-perfect round with the one chance you get.

    What I can't come to terms with, if all those players love the game so much, why has there got to be something big at the end of it?  Anyone who loves the game so much could bring their A-game to any match or tournament whether there are prizes or not - that is the whole idea behind amateur sport.  If I was the best in WGT (and I'm not by a long way, but on my day I can beat anyone, just like many others can), I would want to play in the big tournaments, even if it cost me to enter and there were no prizes at the end of it except a handshake, a virtual trophy, and a "well done lad!".  For those who play real golf, and real golf competitions - you turn up, you pay your entry fee, you play your round, and at the end if you win you might get a small commemorative trophy... that's it!  Even in real (amateur) open golf competitions, prizes (non-monetary) have been cut and formats changed because of players who would 'protect' their handicaps purely to go play in these competitions for no other reason than to win the big prizes (and that's what WGT have done to try kerb restarters doing the same).  That's not love of the sport, that's just pure greed!  But like I said, I have seen real competition formats changed to combat this, and even seen players disqualified (without getting their entry fee back either) for trying such stuff.

    So I'll ask the question, why all the fuss over winning huge amounts of credits (incidentally by people who already win loads anyway!) by supposedly players who 'love the game'?

    I too would agree that if players want these big-payout tournaments, they should be self-funded by entry fees, split into prizes as they wish, and WGT taking either nothing or a very small percantage (they would still get ball hits and maybe the odd lost ball once a year).

    JSmithers:

    Might be slightly off topic but why all the dislike for players in Cobra Kai?  

    Is it just blind dislike or has someone offended you?  I'm confused at how many people dislike people they don't know or know anything about.  

    JSmithers:

    Please be specific and don't hold back because I'm left scratching my head on this. 

    I wasn't going to reply to this, but I will...

    I did say in my original post that the naming of Cobra Kai and where it came from was just my oberservation, and yet one or two players took that as me calling them cheats, which I did not do!  And like you, because no one has replied specifically to that part of my observation, I'm still scratching my head as to why someone would call their CC that name given the background, and even more perplexing why anyone would want to be a member of it considering what it stands for.  If you had called it "Karate Kids", for example, no one would have batted an eyelid, and you would probably have had 5 times more friends.  But to call it Cobra Kai does nothing but put doubts in everyone's minds as to who you all really are, and possibly even what your intentions are within WGT.  And seeing that the first 3 posts in this thread were all CK members, I would hazard a guess you had already discussed it in your own CC forum, or discord, or whatever medium you use for your discussions.  And xAT did actually say a few posts later that... "Someone I know did reach out to WGT about it", meaning you didnt get the answer you wanted, so you are now going to storm the forum to get what you want.  Unfortunatelely that didn't seem to work out either, and really does nothing to improve your image.

    Is it too late to change the name now (obviously you can't do that, you'd have to start a new CC)?  Probably, but only because those same members would already be tarnished with a rotten brush and it might take some convincing that you aren't what a lot might suspect you are.  But it's not impossible, time would tell.

    There, I've answered your question, hopefully in a polite, well-constructed and constructive way.

    And finally, back on topic, having looked at a few profiles of winners of the tournaments in question (we've already heard from PrimerLance), I wonder if Bel0wabove would like to give his take on the subject?

    https://www.wgt.com/players/bel0wabove/default.aspx

    A very 'aspiring' Tour Pro.  Not in Cobra Kai, but maybe a connection of some sort, or even a future member?  Again, if either of those two things are/become true, it does nothing but sour CK's image even more.

    Don't worry, the lower ranks are swarmed with players like this who seem to have been born with the skills to do well on WGT with their 'first' click of the mouse.  This is why restarting has to be abolished.

    EDIT:  JSmithers - I've just noticed it is your CC, I didn't know that.  Maybe you'd like to explain why you called it Cobra Kai so that everyone has a clearer understanding?

  • JSmithers
    1,266 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 5:55 AM

    What I'm gathering is a movie made decades ago about a karate tournament has painted our CC in a bad light and "the lot" make assumptions about people they don't know.  Understand. Thank you for clearing that up. Have a wonderful day and hit em straightish

  • MioKontic
    4,654 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 5:58 AM

    Something I forgot in my previous post, so rather than finding a place to insert it I'll just do it here...

    birchi:

    when what they did (initially) was to argue for a very small portion of the game, --2 monthly tournaments -- to stay the same, so a very small portion of the player base has something to look forward to every month.

    I've highlighted why I think the change is the right thing to do - the way it was set up previously was for only a very small portion of the whole WGT player base.  Now there will likely be much more involvement, time will tell.

    I do also agree with what someone said previously, players will enter even if they make a small loss so long as they win some credits, because it still feels like a win.  Take the 10cr RG's - probably the worst competition there is, you only make a profit (after taking into account ball hits) if you win, therefore 49 players will still make a loss, yet they still fill up fast.

  • DodgyPutter
    4,690 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 6:11 AM

    JSmithers:

    What I'm gathering is a movie made decades ago about a karate tournament has painted our CC in a bad light and "the lot" make assumptions about people they don't know.  Understand. Thank you for clearing that up. Have a wonderful day and hit em straightish

    and thank you for showing why I wont answer your question. :-) 

  • TimK560
    45 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 6:13 AM

    Wow,

    This is embarassing to all of WGT what a big waste of time.

    If I were those guys running this business I'd be laughing my ass off reading this. They don't give a F if guys quit. Always more signing up. It's like all the flash guys who cried about the change and said they were quitting. Who cares. They didn't. It still changed. 

    Nothing wrong with what the orginal post was. Why not have a few upper level events with the payouts for top three? What's wrong with this?

    This game is wasted how it's run. It could be the biggest thing going. It's wasted on the wrong stuff. Coin rooms, clothing boosts , ball effects, WTF I could go on and on. 

    All I know is Young46 won how much? 50 grand last year. While the rest of us cried about coin rooms and showdowns not being fair. 

    This is the same debare. A boo hoo. I want my prize. 

    There is plenty of other stuff for lower skill levels or guys who can't compete with the upper tier players to play. PLENTY!

    I'm a lower level Tour legend. I can't beat the upper tier players So I would not enter that. Not yet anyway.  Even if I finished in top 70 and got 15 credits I could win that 20 other places. 

    I'm not even sure why this sparked this kind of debate. 

     

    As for the the CC hatred. Again, What? Why does anybody spend any energy on something your not part of. Worry about yourself and your own game. 

    Maybe some of the so called lower tier players would get better if they stopped wasting all there energy hating CK and put it into something more constructive, like getting better? 

     

  • birchi
    1,492 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 6:29 AM

    MioKontic:

    I've highlighted why I think the change is the right thing to do - the way it was set up previously was for only a very small portion of the whole WGT player base.  Now there will likely be much more involvement, time will tell.

    Well yeah, that's exactly my point. You have dozens of tournaments every month that cater to the "regular players", does it really make a difference if you add two more to that list that are exactly like the rest? I'm obviously arguing for an elite competition here, that naturally excludes a majority of the player base, but I see no harm in that as there are more than enough alternatives for them. 

    I understand the problem with the sandbagging in lower tiers, and I should have clarified that I'm only talking about the Tour Champion tier that should keep its old format. 

    MioKontic:
    What I can't come to terms with, if all those players love the game so much, why has there got to be something big at the end of it?

    Can only speak for myelf here. There doesn't. I have stated many times that my intrinsic motivation to play the game has dwindled a lot over the years. So I'm really looking for interesting tournament formats where I can not only compete against the best players in the game, but against the best players when they try their hardest. I can enter any Ready Go or whatever and beat fmagnets, but I'll also know that he probably played it half-assed between lunch and his afternoon nap on his private beach. There are certainly different ways to achieve that and a top3 big purse is not necessary, but it was part of the tradition and charme of this particular event that's now gone too. 

    The overarching issue here is that WGT offers very little to players like myself. You basically have the eTour and a couple USGA tournaments a year that scratch that competitive itch. I would for example absolutely play in something with a yearly leaderboard like the Live Series (even without any credits being paid out) if the qualifying method wasn't the ultimate money grab from WGT. Or any kind of official team tournaments with a shorter time frame than the World Cup. Anyway, I don't think I have to apologize for my motivations not meeting your expectations of purity and not being interested in playing the game just for its own sake in the same old tournament after literally playing in thousands of those over the years.

  • DodgyPutter
    4,690 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 6:32 AM

    MioKontic:

    And finally, back on topic, having looked at a few profiles of winners of the tournaments in question (we've already heard from PrimerLance), I wonder if Bel0wabove would like to give his take on the subject?

    https://www.wgt.com/players/bel0wabove/default.aspx

    A very 'aspiring' Tour Pro.  Not in Cobra Kai, but maybe a connection of some sort, or even a future member?

    Quite a remarkable talent. What I don't get is why they always do this maxing out with all the "others".  It was quite a month though and he didn't even win, (beaten by someone who joined on the 28th Dec and shot 60 at WC on his first round as a hack). Never mind though that prodigy did win the multi-round so 3,000c not too bad.

    Sure these are the tournaments wgt should leave alone so "competitive" players can have their fun.

  • PureGro1
    1,656 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 7:16 AM

    JSmithers:

    Might be slightly off topic but why all the dislike for players in Cobra Kai?  

    Is it just blind dislike or has someone offended you?  I'm confused at how many people dislike people they don't know or know anything about.  

    This thread has shown you something.... I personally at this point would embrace it and work hard to sow that hate.

    The fact that every time they read your clubs name they have flashbacks to poor Daniel in 1985 and how he was treated- and that they associate that with you and your club is hilarious at this point.

  • MattSutherland
    146 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 7:23 AM

    birchi:

    The overarching issue here is that WGT offers very little to players like myself. You basically have the eTour and a couple USGA tournaments a year that scratch that competitive itch. I would for example absolutely play in something with a yearly leaderboard like the Live Series (even without any credits being paid out) if the qualifying method wasn't the ultimate money grab from WGT.

    Bingo.

    And I don’t even exist in the same universe as Simon. I’m like 100 universes removed and even I’m bored.

    The game, in its current state, is pretty stale. At least at a highly competitive level. These events were two of the tournaments you could still consistently rely on to actually feel pushed by legit competition. And now they’re both a shell of their former self.

    As others have suggested, I’d love to see a reworking of the Live Series with more single play rounds in tougher conditions and a greater importance placed on cumulative standings. Do I have my doubts that’ll actually happen? Sure, but that’s the ask.

     

  • DodgyPutter
    4,690 Posts
    Sun, Feb 6 2022 7:53 AM

    birchi:
    I understand the problem with the sandbagging in lower tiers, and I should have clarified that I'm only talking about the Tour Champion tier that should keep its old format. 

    Ok so do people agree that the suggestion is either that the TC one is changed back to the first three pay-out or (this is just in case wgt won't do that, something I see as likely) an additional "tier" is added to these monthlies and that one is open and is a top 3 pay-out.  The pay-out is determined by the entry fees. 

    The second way would have the added benefit that very good players stuck in the quagmire of saturation could also enter and test themselves against the best, which would also boost the pay-out :-). 

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