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Changes to deter Sandbagging/Multiaccounting

• birdwell 561 Posts

  Fri, Nov 4 2011 10:38 PM

  here it goes, I'm just going to get right to this and leave out any discussion as to why sandbagging exits and or is a problem. Nor do I want to get into the discussion of tier vs experience unlocking clubs - both arrangements have merit.

  WGT needs to rethink the tier/level system. Currently they are too independent of each other.

  Step one:

  Eliminate consecutive days plays bonus. (hang in with me here) This bonus allows people to easily sandbag and simultaneously level up quickly and unlock better clubs.

  Step two:

  Replace consecutive days played bonus with (something) that requires players to play games that effect their tier.

   

  The simplest idea here is to only give consecutive days played bonus on ranked stoke play games. This only touches on the problem however. This would be an excellent start.

  One idea for what (something) could be:

  "The Mark" - (aka "The Cut"  yes, yes, I know I am stealing this term from TWO, but  it would work differently here.) Every day you'd need to lower your average by some amount. That amount could be static per tier ~ or determined via some algorithm that would take into account the average lowering of average collectively per tier and what not. Lower your average by that amount - get X experience points. Perhaps a good reward for making the mark would be 1000XP, otherwise you get no XP. If sandbaggers want to get the big sticks, they have to lower their average. Multiaccounters  could level up very fast initially, BUT they would hit a brick wall just as quickly - and be pushed back to further tees.

  This could potentially increase sales of mid level clubs (also balls) As players would feel it was necessary to get what they could in order to advance. There is a glut of mid level clubs in the pro shop that I just never see in an avatars hands.

   

  Most of this would be moot to the current player base - and unfortunantly would give a disadvantage to newcomers relative to some. BUt if something like this was implemented, you could quickly identify sandbaggers (not like it's that difficult now. Anyone who has been around since the EXP was introduced is around level 90. (including me, who took about 6 months off lol)  So really it may be too late at this stage in the game - but wasen't the initial introduction of XP also?

   

   

• Pryke 295 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 3:49 AM

  Would 'The Mark' system hinder players who plateau at a certain level? You hit Master, can't get your average down hence can't get XP points to unlock better equipment. Soon you'll lose interest and WGT loses a customer.

• piztaker 5,743 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 4:16 AM

  birdwell:

   

   

  The simplest idea here is to only give consecutive days played bonus on ranked stoke play games. This only touches on the problem however.

   

   

   

  Simple yet effective. How about it WGT?

   

• ForrestLeigh 264 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 4:23 AM

  Sandbaggers don't really see this as any problem, you see it on their walls, 'great game bud' , 'great hole in one' etc, usually find they are a pro with a 57 average

  They think they are great players, so do their friends, but all they do is drive, wedge putt from within 10ft, they don't go through the shots like players playing ranked tournaments do when they move up the tiers, and back on the tees

  As they move up levels their game gets 'better?' because they get better equipment, the wedge becomes easier, the putts closer, their average better

  Why would they want to change, why would WGT want change? they make their money by allowing levels the best equipment

  Anyone trying to get some resolution is accused of whinging - You just want to beat a pro and when you can't you complain is the usual response

  Well actually if I have a 59 average as a legend I'm probably making more 15, 20,30ft putts than the pro with a 58 ever even sees in his round, he could probably play with a driver and 3 wedges, I need all the clubs in my bag

  WGT won't do anything - you can though, don't play them at all

• genorb 1,255 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 5:57 AM

  I read a lot of posts about sandbagging so this is certainly because this is a major problem here but there are still points that I don’t understand. I am sure you will explain to me. Be sure that I don’t try to minimize the effects of sandbagging, I am just trying to understand, really! So even if I look dumb here, please answer kindly to me :) .

  Sandbagger types:

  It looks like there are (perhaps) two families of sandbaggers (not sure if type I really exists).

  1. Sandbagger type I: players with 1 account but who understood quickly how the system works and don’t play much ranked round to stay at low tier and try to level up as quickly as possible to unlock the best equipments. Those players are not doing something wrong, in the sense that this is not against the rules, thus this is a loophole in the system. So they are not cheaters in the strict sense, but they are unfair to play at a lower tier compared to their skills. So the need to change the system.
  2. Sandbagger type II: players with several accounts. Let’s say that their main account is a legend account for example. Those ones are doing something against the rules. For them, no need a priori to change the system if one would be able to track properly multi-accounts. Of course, changing the system would also at the same time prevent multi-accounts because there would be no point to get several accounts.

  What’s the point to be a sandbagger?

  Here come my problems. I don’t understand the point. I am sure your input will help me.

  For sandbagger of type I (remember they have only 1 account):

  if they want to earn credits without reaching the next tier over a long period of time, they need to play only Match Play Challenge (MPC). They cannot play much ready-goes or free tourneys without reaching the next tier quite fast.

  But then the questions:

  Who is playing low tier players for credits? Can you really earn that much credits in this way? Much enough to get something from the elite collection (the cheapest item as a value of 165$)? I personally doubt but I never played MPC so I do not know. Your thoughts?

  For sandbagger of type II (multi-accounters):

  In this case, they do not care much to reach at some point the next tier because they will then open again a new account. So they open they first account (beside their main account), try to reach a good level to get good equipment (this takes time already), they win ready-goes and free tourneys at low tier (not that much because they will tier up). They can also play MPC but then the same questions as above (namely, can you earn that much credits this way). So finally they have this low tier account with some credits (they can have several of them at some point).

  But then the questions:

  What they are doing with those credits? I thought that the point would be to feed their main (legend) account… But then it should be easy to track this. Indeed, it would be very strange to see an amateur or pro sending gifts to a legend no?? (Moreover you need to have reached the appropriate level with this low tier account before being able to send some interesting gifts for a legend because I guess you can only gift items you have unlocked).

  So as you see, I am a bit puzzled. I do not say that there are no sandbaggers or multi-accounters. Looking at some profiles it’s obvious. But are they really earning that much credits this way and what they can do with those credits? If they cannot earn that much credits, what's the point then, because it takes time to reach a level high enough to get good equipments...

  Thanks to help me to understand :).

  Regards

• x1524807 776 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 6:15 AM

  genorb:

  Thanks to help me to understand :).

  We have sandbagger problems

  We have quitting problems

  We have meter problems

  We have sandbagging problems

  We have multi account problems

  We have slow loading problems in alternate

  We have no loading problems in alternate

  We have total shutdown error program in alternate

  We have 1000 threads and 30,000 posts on these subjects

  We have Icon who reads this forum everyday

  We have no solution, so therefore I will say to you

  Live with it, and forget it, you are wasting time

  You wrote a beautiful post, and now it will be put in with the other 30,000

• birdwell 561 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 6:24 AM

  Pryke:

  Would 'The Mark' system hinder players who plateau at a certain level? You hit Master, can't get your average down hence can't get XP points to unlock better equipment. Soon you'll lose interest and WGT loses a customer.

  Good question. I imagine that this type of player would have their average balloon up a bit, and thus make it easy to lower their average - until it gets to that plateau point again. Its hard to say, but I don't think this would cause a loss of interest.

   

  One thing that i missed in my first post was that WGT would likey have to scrap the averaging system where your average doesn't go up after x amount of rounds if this "mark" was implemented-  Otherwise it would be impossible for some to hit their mark ever. Scrapping that might enable players to go back to shooting bad rounds to sandbag, which is a problem - I dunno. Just brainstorming here. No system would be perfect - there are so many things to balance - the key thing is to have something that increases player interest.

   

• birdwell 561 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 6:33 AM

  ForrestLeigh:

  Why would they want to change, why would WGT want change? they make their money by allowing levels the best equipment

   

  If there was some system in place that better linked experience to tier, WGT could potentially sell more clubs sets in that "middle" ground. As it is now, you can just sit at your tier, Level up in XP, and buy the best set. Then be done until WGT releases a new set. If this worked out like that maybe WGT could have a better buy-back program to even further push more intermediate steps in club purchases.

  Again, this is just conjecture. And any change might upset a balance between new and existing players - interesting to discuss and think about however.

• birdwell 561 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 6:41 AM

  genorb:

  But then the questions:

  Who is playing low tier players for credits? Can you really earn that much credits in this way? Much enough to get something from the elite collection (the cheapest item as a value of 165$)? I personally doubt but I never played MPC so I do not know. Your thoughts?

  As far as MPC's go, the most dangerous "baggers" are tour masters who play zero or very little stroke play, already have the best sets, and take on Legends and other masters/tour masters for a fair amount of credits. There aren't a ton of these guys out there, but theeir are a few.

   

  AS for multi-accounters - they are mostly just annoying - I don't play challenges against  tiers lower than master - so these guys are easy to avoid. They do however completly screw up their fellow lower tier players as far as tourneys, etc. Which could lead to some new players becoming frustrated with the game.

   

• drakeshead 285 Posts

  Sat, Nov 5 2011 7:25 AM

  It sounds to me that all you members are against players who move up levels as sandbaggers  I'm a Master with a 63,43 avg and a level 81 I have been playing for 16 weeks and played 277 ranked rounds which is just over 17 rounds a week and put just as many pratice rounds in has well so do you class players like me a sandbagger.