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Haunted Showdown - 3 Bogies Still Not Addressed

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Mon, Nov 28 2022 6:01 PM (39 replies)
  • DodgyPutter
    4,690 Posts
    Fri, Oct 21 2022 4:06 PM

    This then Sam.

    WGT Nico — Yesterday at 23:30

    Showdown was always supposed to be meant as a h2h coin room game mode. Obviously yes bogey glitch is SUPER annoying and we're just as annoyed that it exists. Last time we looked at the data though, the bogey glitch only seems to effect less than 1% of each showdown.

    soupdragon — Today at 00:07

    Out of interest how have you landed upon the 1% affected figure?

    WGT Nico — Today at 00:08

    we can investigate the stats on triple bogeys in showdown

    I wonder about a couple of things. "1% of showdown" is that holes? players? 1% of holes is obviously more serious. 

    "Triple bogeys" I hope this is just a terminology thing and three consecutive bogeys is what's meant.  If it is, that seems a lot of trouble to go to and it will also pick up some intances of players doing this without the bug.

    In fact, the way the investigation is described (counting bogeys) it sounds to me like holes not players are counted, as each player getting through to the end plays 45 holes that is obviously more serious.  I have a feeling the 45 should be divided by three (as you'd have three holes affected?). Would that still mean 15% of players are affected?  That can't be right!  

    It's late here and I'm probably talking nonsense so please someone point out why. (People being hit by it twice in one showdown doesn't count). 

  • SamSpayed
    5,021 Posts
    Fri, Oct 21 2022 6:55 PM

    pdb1:
    Do you still buy the claim " We cannot seem to duplicate it " ?

    Actually, yes I do.  Because I don't they're trying very hard.  Nico is always telling us that they're a "small indie company" and implying they don't have very many resources.  And all of us who play WGT have seen the ongoing incompetence of their QA testers, who seem to do very little testing beyond basic unit testing, as evidenced by the vast number of bugs that slip by them and make it into their live environment.

  • RickinWaSt
    2,095 Posts
    Fri, Oct 21 2022 7:39 PM

    ~> And all of us who play WGT have seen the ongoing incompetence...

    I've never absorbed what the expectations ought to be with WGT when it comes to incorporating members priority issues. 

  • el3n1
    4,502 Posts
    Fri, Oct 21 2022 8:53 PM

    I realize you pulled this from elsewhere dp.

    DodgyPutter:

    WGT Nico — Today at 00:08

    we can investigate the stats on triple bogeys in showdown

    Shows how they fail to account for all the scenarios in which a bogey glitch effects outcomes, despite the incorrect terminology of triple bogies versus 3  separate bogies being applied. 

    The bogey bug can happen at the start of a round, where 3 separate bogies are given or  after 1 or 2 holes or before your birdie or eagle putt on the last hole.  The impact of 1 bogie that erases an eagle or birdie on 1 hole can be a 2 or 3 shot swing despite showing 1 bogie on the card.  Are they really so myopic that they fail to see the full scope of how it impacts the entire event?  1 bogie can alter an outcome but 3 bogies almost always does.

    By only looking at triple bogies they are ignoring countless examples that still happen.  

    All those who played the current showdown will end up with the witches hand that looks like it is flipping you off.  I got the message so I stayed away and skipped it.  

    I have dealt with bogie bugs in atleast 30% of the showdowns I played.  So that seems far to high a number to me.  After skipping the event for an entire year,  I gave them another chance and little has changed.  Now, I only play on a more selective basis.  Not worth the frustration otherwise.  

    1 % sounds like they are not investigating the issue properly.  I know from my experience that is no where close to accurate.  

  • SimonTheBeetle
    3,645 Posts
    Fri, Oct 21 2022 9:49 PM

    SamSpayed:
    Once WGT fixes the Showdown Bogey Glitch, I'll start playing them. Until then, I will not. Why reward and encourage poor programming? 🙄

    SamSpayed:
    Because I don't they're trying very hard.  Nico is always telling us that they're a "small indie company" and implying they don't have very many resources.  And all of us who play WGT have seen the ongoing incompetence of their QA testers, who seem to do very little testing beyond basic unit testing, as evidenced by the vast number of bugs that slip by them and make it into their live environment.

    +1 Exactly what I'm thinking.

  • DodgyPutter
    4,690 Posts
    Sat, Oct 22 2022 3:40 AM

    el3n1:

    Shows how they fail to account for all the scenarios in which a bogey glitch effects outcomes, despite the incorrect terminology of triple bogies versus 3  separate bogies being applied. 

    The bogey bug can happen at the start of a round, where 3 separate bogies are given or  after 1 or 2 holes or before your birdie or eagle putt on the last hole.  The impact of 1 bogie that erases an eagle or birdie on 1 hole can be a 2 or 3 shot swing despite showing 1 bogie on the card.  Are they really so myopic that they fail to see the full scope of how it impacts the entire event?  1 bogie can alter an outcome but 3 bogies almost always does.

    By only looking at triple bogies they are ignoring countless examples that still happen.  

    Back to Discord:

    @magiceire

    3 bogeys isn’t always what happens though, I just posted about a single bogey given, have seen others get the same, will also sometimes just make you replay all 3 which can be good or bad I guess depending on how original 3 were going, I would say from a sampling of one that it seems to have improved over last few months though


    WGT Nico — Yesterday at 00:19

    probably a good 95% of complaints of showdown is the 3 bogeys so it's the best way to determine these stats

    Lol, Please don't start calling 3 consecutive bogeys triple bogeys, three double bogies in a row, a triple double bogie? (Actually, that wouldn't be as bad as it doesn't already have a clear meaning in golf). 

    As to the 95%, it has the look of an off-hand comment to me (I'm not saying it is, just how it looks to me) and I'd agree that it seems far too high.  The number of complaints of three bogies will be higher as a % of how often it happens as it is almost certain (above rookie qualifying) to affect your chances. One or two bogies that don't make a difference to the outcome probably aren't reported although I get what you're saying that sometimes they really do matter.

    If they really are counting this by picking up where there are three consecutive bogies there would be all sorts of complications, they would need to make sure the first of them was on hole 1, 4, 7 (10,13, or 16) for instance.

    Nico also said:

     WGT Nico — Yesterday at 00:26

    and I'm sure if we tracked even just the normal bogeys in a showdown it would still be an incredibly small number

    That is obviously dependent on what you think of as an incredibly small number, but I would say it's not right.

    I checked my qualifying league; 41 players finished under par, 11 level and 47 over. The 41 amassed -150 between them, the 47 +276.  Bearing in mind someone level or under is likely to have a bogey or two on their scorecard there must have been a lot of bogeys included here, more than birdies probably. 

    Then we have the ones that didn't make the top 50 can play again, I imagine there are plenty more bogeys there. 

    Already in my elimination group those over par combine to +166.  The qualifying cut was level par it looks like being -1 here (in elimination) so not massively different but also 18 holes meaning birdies and bogies cancelling each other out more often.

    There will be less bogeys in the more expensive showdowns, where there are better players and, for some, shorter tees but I think the majority play the rookie one.

    It's hard to show the numbers playing each level, an indication can be gleamed looking at the number in "Paris" compared to the other three-hole rooms.  As the numbers in the rooms is another of the ignored, for now, glitches, it's hard to do much with them. 

    el3n1:
    1 % sounds like they are not investigating the issue properly.  I know from my experience that is no where close to accurate.  

    A very small part of me worries they are counting triple bogies.

  • SamSpayed
    5,021 Posts
    Sat, Oct 22 2022 10:44 AM

    pdb1:
    What is now worrisome I think . Is the truthfullness of the %'s . And the dismissal of the impact and priority of this and other errors that we as players see as very real and in need of serious attention .

    Agreed, Paul.  They are certainly underestimating the frequency of the Showdown Bogey Glitch.  el3n1 gave a great example of situations where their special analytical programming is not counting the glitches that only create 1 or 2 bogeys rather than 3.

    Of course, the real question in my mind is:  Why is WGT wasting programming resources doing this frequency analysis, rather than doing a deep-dive into their code (and maybe network logs) to try to figure out what exactly is (or could be) causing the Showdown Bogey Glitch?  Or, alternatively, why aren't they developing some sort of workaround?

    Many players have suggested, both here and in Discord, that they make a special room (or set of rooms) strictly for Showdowns.  That seems to me to be a great workaround suggestion.  Yes, it would be difficult for WGT to do it (or so they claim).  But this Showdown Bogey Glitch has been around for more than 2 years now.  It's unprecedented for a bug to exist for 2+ years in any software.  It's long past time for them to spend some resources to fix it.

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