Also if a player with R11s is only scoring around 2or 3 under per 9 holes then these will slot into that players game nicely,Sure you wil lose some shots into elevated greens where you need to stop the ball quick but on normal playing surface approaches you could easily get used to the 5 or 6 yards more roll they offer,In fact this may suit some players that have a Back spin addiction:)I rented them and found them very useful,I will probably buy the 81 level ones,I hit some nice blitz scores with them too,I found Callys work better with these than Nikes,I was losing too much carry with Nike with bs,,Overall i think they are a very competent iron!