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My guide on how i adjust for the wind

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 6:18 AM

  cobra4:

  The trouble i would find in doing it your way Jim/Marioh, is that i would find it just as hard to hit it where you describe, as i would in hitting the ding line. Never the less still a good way i guess.

  If you can hit the ding line relatively consistently, then missing by a pixel or two on either edge of perfect shouldn't be a big deal or radically different than what you're doing.

  Every shot is different for me though.   I couldn't really give you a number or percentage of the time that I decide to either hit it perfect or play off the edges of perfect.   It's truly a feel thing for me and how I play is really dependent on game conditions and the mood I'm in.

• birdwell 561 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 6:19 AM

  Nice guide Cobra.

  I would just like to point out that this will be highly club dependent.

  i.e G10 Master iron players are going to have to account for the wind a lot more than Rapture or Taylormade iron players, due to differences in loft.

• cobra4 359 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 12:39 PM

  Mmmm... So what where saying is the G10 master irons react differently to the wind veriations as to what the rapture irons do ?. Only ever played with the  G10's a few times, but i always thought the wind factor was the same for all clubs.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 1:38 PM

  cobra4:

  Mmmm... So what where saying is the G10 master irons react differently to the wind veriations as to what the rapture irons do ?. Only ever played with the  G10's a few times, but i always thought the wind factor was the same for all clubs.

  Thanks to your post I've been paying attention to the wind and clubs the ops are using and am interested in the answer. Maybe the deviation I don't see with the Taylors is because of the flatter trajectory with the SD ball.

  I do have a question regarding the amount of aim adjustment. In putting you treat 1" as 1 ft when gauging elevation. Does wind work the same way where mph=feet in calculations?

   

• birdwell 561 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 3:22 PM

  cobra4:

   i always thought the wind factor was the same for all clubs.

  oK I'm going to take a stab at this.... I apologize to physicists and pro golfers around the world in advance... :)

  Yes. The longer the ball is in the air, the more it will be effected by the wind. Simple enough to understand, but why doesn't your 300 yard drive move with the wind more than your 120 yard approach shot? there are other factors to consider...

  Your swing arc on your woods and longer irons are greater, because the club shafts are longer, thus your club head speed is greater, thus the distance and speed at which the ball travels is greater. So even though your 3W puts the ball in the air for an amount of time much greater than your 9i, the velocity that the ball is traveling overcomes the effect the wind has on it.  

  And the converse is true, you hit the ball with your PW at a much lower velocity (because of the shorter club length and arc which lessens your club head speed) Also the blade angle is more severe, causing the ball to travel at a higher trajectory, increasing airtime, and the effect of the wind on the ball,  relative to the distance the ball travels.

  So once you factor all that in, yes the wind will move your 3i and your 9i relatively the same way.... 

  But when you have clubs that go the same distance, but at different trajectories, the wind will effect the ball struck with the higher trajectory club more.

  You can see this for yourself, a shot with backspin will hang up in the wind a lot more that a shot with top spin from the same club.

• PugsAce 1,825 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 3:53 PM

  birdwell:

  ... You can see this for yourself, a shot with backspin will hang up in the wind a lot more that a shot with top spin from the same club.

  After reading that, I've gotta chime in with a question...

  When using a longer club, and the wind is in my face, and I apply top-spin, the ball seems to "hang" in the air, and drop at a more vertical angle (with less roll) than when I use back-spin under the same wind condition.

  Why is this?

  edit: and don't tell me it's a variant of the "Birdwell Technique"... ;)

• birdwell 561 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 5:27 PM

  PugsAce:

  When using a longer club, and the wind is in my face, and I apply top-spin, the ball seems to "hang" in the air, and drop at a more vertical angle (with less roll) than when I use back-spin under the same wind condition.

   

  Yes this makes sense, I should have specified a shorter iron with a sidewind in my last statement there.

  Things get really strange when you throw spin into the mix. 

  meaning: I don't really know the answer! :)

  ok folks get out the bs detector it's time for more physics conjecture from the birdwell!

  The ball is going to balloon into a head wind regardless of spin. (this part is definitely true) This means that the ball will have less forward inertia when it starts it's decent, the wind just killed it, or rather it was transferred into lift -  so it will drop at more of an angle than with no wind.  Because backspin causes the ball to lift anyway, it reaches the apex of it's arc sooner, and still has a little bit more forward inertia left when gravity takes over, and has some roll as it hits the ground at less of an angle. Note - the two arcs travel roughly roughly the same distance - but have different curves.

   

  I'd draw an example - but I'm not going to waste my time since what I said probably isn't true!!!!! ^_^

   

   

   

   

   

   

• PugsAce 1,825 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 6:47 PM

  Sometimes... well actually most often... when I use back-spin INTO the wind, it seems like the wind "knocks the ball down", effectively causing it to land shorter, but roll-out more than it would if I had used top-spin. I must say however, that this usually occurs when the windage is above 10mph.

  Hmmmm...

   

• donsprintr 2,063 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 11:08 PM

  A fine way of practicing your wind guaging ability and honing this skill is to play a variety of CTTH skill challenges ... in these you find a mixed bag of winds from low to heavy and a bunch of differing shots/distances to practice with ...

  In response to the question of wind strength, i find that for long and mid irons the general rule of thumb is about half the wind strength up to about 16 mph... ( ex. a 10 mph head wind requires about 5 more yds of club to get there ) above 16 you will have to add more than half ( again practice is necessary to develop your distances ) ... wind will affect your short irons and wedges less distance-wise ... and be prepared for the 20-30 mph St. Andrews winds ... don't be surprised at how much extra distance you'll have to hit into a wind ... and remember that balls hit in a crosswind lose a little distance due to the curvature of the ball flight ...

  Again, practice is necessary to develop your techniques/yardages/aims as the various club sets have different trajectories which make it impossible to post a simple cut and dried formula ... good luck ...

• jayjonbeach 689 Posts

  Fri, Feb 12 2010 11:28 PM

  birdwell:

  Yes. The longer the ball is in the air, the more it will be effected by the wind. Simple enough to understand, but why doesn't your 300 yard drive move with the wind more than your 120 yard approach shot? there are other factors to consider...

  Your swing arc on your woods and longer irons are greater, because the club shafts are longer, thus your club head speed is greater, thus the distance and speed at which the ball travels is greater. So even though your 3W puts the ball in the air for an amount of time much greater than your 9i, the velocity that the ball is traveling overcomes the effect the wind has on it.  

  And the converse is true, you hit the ball with your PW at a much lower velocity (because of the shorter club length and arc which lessens your club head speed) Also the blade angle is more severe, causing the ball to travel at a higher trajectory, increasing airtime, and the effect of the wind on the ball,  relative to the distance the ball travels.

  So once you factor all that in, yes the wind will move your 3i and your 9i relatively the same way.... 

  But when you have clubs that go the same distance, but at different trajectories, the wind will effect the ball struck with the higher trajectory club more.

  You can see this for yourself, a shot with backspin will hang up in the wind a lot more that a shot with top spin from the same club.

  I'm no expert but this is exactly what I find. 

  donsprintr:

  A fine way of practicing your wind guaging ability and honing this skill is to play a variety of CTTH skill challenges ... in these you find a mixed bag of winds from low to heavy and a bunch of differing shots/distances to practice with ...

  In response to the question of wind strength, i find that for long and mid irons the general rule of thumb is about half the wind strength up to about 16 mph... ( ex. a 10 mph head wind requires about 5 more yds of club to get there ) above 16 you will have to add more than half ( again practice is necessary to develop your distances ) ... wind will affect your short irons and wedges less distance-wise ... and be prepared for the 20-30 mph St. Andrews winds ... don't be surprised at how much extra distance you'll have to hit into a wind ... and remember that balls hit in a crosswind lose a little distance due to the curvature of the ball flight ...

  Again, practice is necessary to develop your techniques/yardages/aims as the various club sets have different trajectories which make it impossible to post a simple cut and dried formula ... good luck ...

  I also add about the same amount and it seems to work. 

  --------------------

  I'm curious how much people are adding or subtracting for elevation, some holes seem wonky, I dont remember which but they are not consistent with most. 

  Wolf creek first hole right now is a good example, 45 feet down yet you can only knock off 3 yards or so?   The sucker is 151 and you have to play it like 148, that aint right by anyones measuring tape.......

  I am finding overall that downhill does play a much smaller role than uphill.

  Very roughly, with no wind at all (for arguement sake) and I have 150 yards to go with 25 feet of elevation, I will add about 15 - 20 yards. 

  The same shot 150 yards but 25 feet downhill I find you can only knock off maybe 5 - 10 and hit 145 or so.  

  A general rule is hard for this because it depends on how far away you really are, if your only 50 yards away less effect versus 175.