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How the new average is computed for legend

• genorb 1,255 Posts

  Sat, Aug 4 2012 1:58 PM

  Hi All,

  I have only played two rounds since the last update and the introduction of the new Tour Legend tier but I think I already figured out how the average for legend is computed.

  To be precise, I think I know how it works for legends who have played 400 rounds before the last update. For the others, it's only a conjecture which should be confirmed by players who haven't yet played 400 rounds and who keep track of the rounds they play.

  It looks complicated, but take the time needed to read, that's pretty simple actually.

  Legend with 400+ rounds before the last update:

  For those players, their average was the average of their best ever 400 rounds played as legend. Let's take my case as example to explain how it works.

  The total number of strokes of my 400 best rounds was 21611 before the last update (I know this number because I keep track of my rounds). That number is now fixed. This gives as average 21611 / 400 = 54.0275 = 54.03 (with round off due to two digits display). This is indeed the average I had before the last update.

  Now to this number 21611, you add the number of strokes you are doing during the rounds you are playing after the update. My first round after the update was a 58. So we have 21611 + 58 = 21669. The number of rounds is now 401. The average is thus 21669 / 401 = 54.0374 = 54.04 (with round off). This is indeed the average I had after my first round.

  My second round was a 53. So we have 21669 + 53 = 21722. The number of rounds is now 402. The average is thus 21722 / 402 = 54.0348 = 54.03. This is indeed the average I had after this second round. You can notice that with the round off, I was very close to have 54.04 instead of 54.03. That's why I am pretty sure it is how it works.

  For those who doesn't keep track of their rounds:

  You can still have a rather good estimation of what should be your average after you finish a given round. You just need to know what was your average just before the last update.

  Let A be your average before the update. Then the total number of strokes of your 400 best ever rounds is 400*A (with some errors due to the fact that A is only known with an accuracy of two digits).

  Your new average, Anew, after the update and after M rounds is the following:

  1. You sum all the strokes you did during those M rounds to get a number NM (for 9-holes scores you convert them to 18-holes scores by multiplying them by 2). 
  2. Anew = (400*A + NM) / (400 + M)

  For example, let assume that your average before the update was A = 58.06. You played M = 4 rounds after the update with the following scores: 29, 31, 61, 58. The total number of strokes is then

  NM = 29*2 + 31*2 + 61 + 58 = 239

  Thus

  Anew = (400 * 58.06 + 239) / (400 + 4) = 23463 / 404 = 58.08

  Legend with less than 400 rounds before the last update:

  For them I think that their average will fluctuate until they have played 500 rounds as legend. Once they have played more than 500 rounds, their average will be the average of their best ever 500 rounds played as legend. This needs to be confirmed by a legend with less than 400 rounds before the update.

  I hope I was clear enough.

  Regards

• phiber 2,795 Posts

  Sat, Aug 4 2012 5:04 PM

  I think your exactly right Genorb, my calculations were almost identical to yours and it came out the same as my current average.  I am in the Legend with 400 ranked rounds but well above your average group (maybe someday ) ;).

  I have an email from WGT that more or less confirms that new legends will in fact have to shoot 500 rounds.  I would be glad to share that with the community as I don't think it is proprietary. 

  AFter reading all the input from players with much more WGT knowledge than I, I can accept it as just another challenge but I also think it could have happened differently as well.  Those that are good enough to be at your level of play will not be adversely affected by 100 rounds in all probability. 

• chris5214 1,937 Posts

  Sat, Aug 4 2012 5:45 PM

  here's my question .. from TM to Legend you needed minimum of 50 rounds ..

  so, does that then mean that from L to TL you need minimum of 100 rounds ? thats how i understand it, meaning if you have turned Legend on 02/08, you'll need minimum of 100 rounds before you can qualify for TL, provided your avg is 60 or lower .. ?

• spitlist 119 Posts

  Sat, Aug 4 2012 6:49 PM

  For what it's worth, I don't think it makes any difference.  I only recently reached the Legend tier and after reaching that level, I discovered that nothing worked the way it did when I was in earlier tiers.  The scale is much faster and I cannot consistently catch it at the center. 

  Furthermore, things that used to work, like lining up putts and the distance a putt was likely to travel also changed making my putting anything but reliable.

   

  Therefore, I have decided that it is no longer worth my time to continue playing this stupid game.  I cannot ever get any better and there is absolutely no hope I will ever start shooting the sort of scores that the cheaters do.  I look at the results of tournaments and see people who shoot in the low 50's and have longest drives well over 450 yards.  That is beyond comprehension and can only be accomplished by cheating.  If you have to cheat in order to win, you are not really playing golf.

   

   

• Acrux 393 Posts

  Sat, Aug 4 2012 7:04 PM

  spitlist:

  For what it's worth, I don't think it makes any difference.  I only recently reached the Legend tier and after reaching that level, I discovered that nothing worked the way it did when I was in earlier tiers.  The scale is much faster and I cannot consistently catch it at the center. 

  Furthermore, things that used to work, like lining up putts and the distance a putt was likely to travel also changed making my putting anything but reliable.

   

  THerefore, I have decided that it is no longer worth my time to continue playing this stupid game.  I cannot ever get any better and there is absolutely no hope I will ever start shooting the sort of scores that the cheaters do.  I look at the results of tournaments and see people who shoot in the low 50's and have longest drives well over 450 yards.  That is beyond comprehension and can only be accomplished by cheating.  If you have to cheat in order to win, you are not really playing gold.

  why must there always be one to screw up a great and informative thread

   

• ColumbusStorm 3,418 Posts

  Sat, Aug 4 2012 7:04 PM

  chris5214:

  so, does that then mean that from L to TL you need minimum of 100 rounds ? 

  Most likely you would need a minimum of 500 ranked Legend rounds to become a Tour Legend. Since WGT knows your best 400 ranked round average, they just required an additional 100 ranked rounds, probably so no one would immediately become a TL.

  As Genorb said, we need a Legend that has fewer than 400 ranked rounds who also keeps track of all their score to confirm the theory. 

  I have also confirmed Genorb's theory using my scores, but I'm also well over (~1100) 400 ranked Legend rounds. Note that a 9 hole round score is doubled to create an 18 hole score and is counted as 1 round, same as an 18 hole round.

• phiber 2,795 Posts

  Sat, Aug 4 2012 7:09 PM

  Here is the email I got from WGT concerning the rounds needed if you are a legend.

  My understanding is that you need to complete the 400 rounds and the 100 rounds to qualify for TL. Here is what WGT said:

  Phiber,
  
  1. During a recent chat with the community, it was revealed that players will have to participate in the extra rounds, as well as the rounds that the community has estimated for Legends to play.
  
  2. As with all ranked rounds, your best of scores are taken and scores will affect your average.
  
  3. To make this fair for all Legend players, this extra set of games was put on all the players.
  
  I hope you understand that we can't make public with exact details but offer a good guidance into what may be required.
  
  From,
  WGT Member Services

• jvr86 799 Posts

  Sat, Aug 4 2012 7:14 PM

  Nice explanation Genorb.

  genorb:

  For those who doesn't keep track of their rounds:

  I made the same theory, and I tested it after a few rounds too, and it work the way you say :)

  Let me share you mine, that applies also for the ones that don't keep track of the average, so the "A" don't confuse anyone 

   

  jvr86:

  Gents, my theory is:

  your current average belong to best 400 ranked rounds.

  now those 400 best round are frozen. Example. 58av = (400x58)/400 

  and you will add 100 round to those frozen ranked rounds.

  every new round will be added to that amoun, good or bad.

   - lf you made a new score of 58: Av = ((400x58)+58)/401 = 58 (nothing changes)

   - If you made a new score of 57: Av = ((400x58)+57)/401 = 57.997 ~ 58 

   - If you made a new score of 52: Av = ((400x58)+57)/401 = 57.985 ~ 57.99

   - If you made a new score of 63: Av = ((400x58)+57)/401 = 58.012 ~ 58.01

   

  I have the scores and names of all the ranked round I made as legend, more than 1200, with all the stats, % averages, best 400 rounds... etc.

  So up to now, my theory is correct. but I need to make some more rounds to double check. :)

   

   

• thebigeasy707 5,885 Posts

  Sat, Aug 4 2012 7:19 PM

  thanks for the info Fabien

   

  and ...........

  spitlist:

   there is absolutely no hope I will ever start shooting the sort of scores that the cheaters do.  I look at the results of tournaments and see people who shoot in the low 50's and have longest drives well over 450 yards.  That is beyond comprehension and can only be accomplished by cheating.  If you have to cheat in order to win, you are not really playing golf.

  this is what happens when diplomacy fails.