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Re: Not a hole in one

Wed, Jun 19 2013 11:14 AM (20 replies)
  • WoodenHands
    526 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 2:59 AM

    How this isn't  in i don't know , sickener , only had one before and it was a crapper , this one looked great all the way , left me the shortest putt ever -

     http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=555a1e60-4b6c-4ada-922b-a1e1009e9020

  • gmaster007
    2,101 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 3:57 AM

    WoodenHands:

    How this isn't  in i don't know , sickener , only had one before and it was a crapper , this one looked great all the way , left me the shortest putt ever -

    http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=555a1e60-4b6c-4ada-922b-a1e1009e9020

    it would appear that the ball got stuck between the flag stick and the rim,
    which is plain stupid programming since the flag stick is considered
    a removable object. so when this happens in real golf, you shake the stick
    a little to allow the ball to drop in. since we CAN'T do that in this game,
    this should not be programmed as an option.
    just another (fill in the blank) from wgt.

    good ace... but the game is broken so it doesn't count as one.

  • wisdom22
    52 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 4:17 AM

    The ball is stuck between the hole and the flag, but in real golf I understand that you are allowed 10 seconds for the ball to drop in without the player touching the flag and if not you have to place the ball  on thee green close to the hole. I may be wrong but I stand to be corrected if if I am. Either way I agree that you were robbed of a hole in one.

  • bubbadork
    984 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 4:36 AM

    The shame is it would be simple to fix. If, when the ball comes to rest, the center of mass of the ball is inside the lip of the cup, you're in the hole.

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 9:39 AM

    bubbadork:

    The shame is it would be simple to fix. If, when the ball comes to rest, the center of mass of the ball is inside the lip of the cup, you're in the hole.

    No bubba, that's not the fix.  You're right in that it is a simple calculation.  So simple even a caveman like you or I can do it.  So simple even a WGT programmer got it right, otherwise we'd have a lot more of these ball hanging over the cup, ball rolling over the cup, and ball going through the pin shots.  I have probably seen a handful of these in 1400 ranked rounds.  So they got that calculation right.

    The problem is they rendered the hole in the wrong position on our screen.  They generate the x,y,z coordinates of where the ball is with their physics engine.  So they have that.  And they know the x,y, z where the cup is because they took GPS data at St. Andrews.  When they compare those two coordinates, the balls not in the cup.  That's easy.

    The hard part of this game is correctly projecting the 3D coordinates of the cup or ball on to a 2D photo.  Take a look at the WGT patent applications I listed in this thread called WGT "Magic"

    More complex than comparing two numbers.  They don't just send 10 photographers out on a course to take kinda random shots and hope they get the ones they need.  The use aerial photographs of the holes to plan the shots they need then generate Shot Lists specifying GPS location of the shot, elevation of the camera, direction the camera is aimed, angle of the camera to horizontal, and focal length of the lens to be used.

    No doubt photos on the green are taken using a Shot List where the camera is pointing at a stake in the ground where a hole would be in the game.  And the GPS location of the camera is recorded with each photo.

    WGT selects which photos to display during a shot based on the computed x,y,z flight of the ball and the GPS coordinates of each photo.

    Then WGT has to project in perspective the position of the cup and ball on to the 2 dimensional photo. (In perspective meaning objects further from the camera are smaller).  Then they need to tell flash to draw this object (the ball, or the cup, or the cup with pin) starting at pixel x,y in the photo.

    Long story short, they do lots of computations to draw the ball and cup in the proper location relative to the chosen photo. 

    I think somewhere in those computations is a bug that places the cup (or ball) in the wrong spot on some, not all, photos.

    The end result is some renderings mis-represent the spacial relationship between the cup and ball.

    End result could be what I called a "phantom pin" in my post on this thread.  (Scroll down 2/3 of the page)

    In this case, shown in the animation below,  the "phantom pin" is in image 1 and a possible correct pin location is shown in image 2:

    It makes a big difference drawing the pin about an inch and a half to the right!

    Anyway, its not a simple fix.  If there is a fix.  It could be, for all I know, due to the accuracy limitations of GPS.  Though I'm sure they'd choose the best available survey-grade GPS system.

     

     

  • frappefort
    3,994 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 10:31 AM

    Andyson, you have a way to  show us the small nuances WGT has .   TY  for that , WGT should think of offering you a job ...Lollllll        I would take you in a sec  mon ami . Frapp

  • Doublemochaman
    2,009 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 11:06 AM

    Here's hoping the tripod legs don't poke holes in the greens.

  • keidan
    311 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 11:50 AM

    andyson:

    It makes a big difference drawing the pin about an inch and a half to the right!

    Anyway, its not a simple fix.  If there is a fix.  It could be, for all I know, due to the accuracy limitations of GPS.  Though I'm sure they'd choose the best available survey-grade GPS system.

    I'm not so sure this is all that is going on, that is, a pure mapping issue. Even in your still pictures, the end of the ball trajectory seems a bit sudden for a ball coming to rest near a cup and not influenced by it (the motion in the replay shows it more clearly).  I could understand if this happens perhaps on a fairway or light rough but do not expect it on a "smooth" green surface.

    Here are another couple of replays that show subtle physical anomalies near the cup that I commented on recently and that I don't think are mapping problems:

    yet ANOTHER WTF moment. brought to you by the good folks @ WGT

     

    -Keith

     

     

  • bypass07
    1,360 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 12:21 PM

    Beautiful shot !! well planned out and execution was flawless !! them's the breaks I guess.  play often have fun !!

  • DAZZA501
    5,972 Posts
    Tue, Jun 18 2013 12:45 PM
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