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New players being promoted too quickly

• Valrec 70 Posts

  Tue, Aug 17 2010 5:59 AM

  A lot of this post is a copy-and-paste from an answer I gave elsewhere in the forum about a player hitting master tier too quickly.

  New players often get promoted too quickly through no fault of their own. They join the game, play around the courses, decide that Beth and Oak are too hard, decide to learn the game at Kiawah and St Andrews, often only St Andrews, start shooting low scores, maybe playing a lot of 9-hole rounds, or chasing the prize in a weekly unlimited play at St Andrews, and suddenly find themselves in the Master tier, having developed few skills in the game and having not learned enough about the nuances of the game to play from master tees on VF greens. In a lot of cases, it is enough to make them quit the game.

  Personally, I think it would be good if there was some indication when someone joins, of how the game difficulty progresses as you go up the tiers, and of the fact that really a player ought to play all courses in order to learn the game and prepare for the promotion.

  Maybe it would be an idea to somehow link the promotion to playing all courses, perhaps limiting the number of times you could play St Andrews or Kiawah as an amateur or professional without playing Oak or Beth e.g. 5 rounds at St Andrews or Kiawah one would have to play 3 rounds at Oak and 3 at Beth (all ranked) before being allowed on StAndrews or Kiawah again.

  Not sure of the solution, but I know a lot of players just quit the game because they hit master too early, which is a real shame, because they miss out on the pleasure of playing the game in real depth, and WGT misses out on the potential revenue they would have got from those players if they grew to love the game and invest some cash, and then the community suffers as it takes longer for the programme to evolve because revenue is not coming at the rate it could.

  Valrec

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Tue, Aug 17 2010 10:00 AM

  A full courses requirement for promotion.

  An excellent idea.

  +1

• TarheelsRule 5,566 Posts

  Tue, Aug 17 2010 10:18 AM

  I made a similar suggestion a while back.  The handicap system of using 9 holes the same as an 18 hole round makes it much easier and faster to advance.  I realize that it would be difficult to determine that a 9 hole round would only count as 1/2 round but that would help as well.  Most of the quick pros make it by playing the back nine at Kiawah and front nine at St Andrews over and over.  It would probably be difficult to do but making it a requirement to play all 4 course in 18 hole mode 4 or 5 times to be used to determine ranking would be a good idea.

  I played 18 holes on all four courses a few days ago, just because someone suggested it.  I was able to shoot scores that were right on my handicap but mainly because I played as a single, I have found my scores go up about 1.5 strokes per nine when I play in a group, more in a 4some, less in a 2some.  Probably because I spend my time on the forums between shots and lose my concentration.

• rutgernohl 188 Posts

  Tue, Aug 17 2010 3:13 PM

  i think they shouldn't double your score on a 9-hole ( if u shoot 31 it will count as 62) but they should add the back 9 to it so if you score 31 on the front nine and add the 36 of the back nine 67 and there will be a better avarage.

  And you'll don't advance to the next tier to quick.

   

   

• Sargenjd01 366 Posts

  Tue, Aug 17 2010 4:36 PM

  As someone who suddenly found themselves a Master after chasing a weekly open I could not agree more with your post. I have often tried to figure out a way this would not happen to future players. I like the idea of all four courses but I think we can add some other dynamics from a persons stats that would not allow them to move up to quickly and then walk away because it has gotten way to hard to quick. 

• Pangaea 242 Posts

  Tue, Aug 17 2010 5:52 PM

  First of all I do agree with the original poster that the game promoted people too quickly. I only joined a little week ago and made Pro fairly quickly. I feel like an Amateur, and could actually compete half-decently at that level. But at Pro level it's simply impossible. I struggle to make Par rounds, while a lot of Pros easily score 8-10 under. No way I can compete with that, and it's unlikely I ever will.

  But I also have to point out that some users that progress fast are simply not new users, just operating under a new name. When you score a 32 in your first round you are not a new user. That just does not happen. Not when it's so difficult to putt in this game.

  That said, something needs to be done about the tiers and the calculation for how people are put where. I don't think it's fair that genuine new users, like myself, are put into the Pro tier so quickly by playing 5-10 over par. There are also heaps and heaps of great players operating under new usernames who kick us new blokes around in the Hack and Amateur tournaments. Perhaps particularly in the CTTH ones. They may play a round or three to get into Amateur, then not hit a ranked round again, but rake in money and trophies by hugging the pin on each hole. It's very frustrating. I therefore think CTTH scores must somehow be taken into consideration too, so these guys and gals are moved up if they do great in CTTH tournaments.

  So I'm a bit torn I suppose. On the one hand I don't want to be moved into Pro too quickly, but on the other hand I don't want genuinely good players to stick around in Hack and Amateur very long by sandbagging (or not playing ranked) and then wiping the floor with us *actual* new players.

  Sorry if this went a little bit off topic, but I felt it should be included too. We need a good balance to take care of both issues. A much more thorough handicap system is needed IMO.

  (Btw: How long must new users stay in moderation queue? Pretty boring to not see your post appear until a day or two later, when the discussion oftentimes has moved well on, so people probably don't even spot my posts)

• danohi50 1,020 Posts

  Tue, Aug 17 2010 6:43 PM

  As long as were still able to cherry pick rounds there is gonna be a problem.

  Tourney rounds should be the only ones counted with penalty for high % of disconnects.

• torch2k 18 Posts

  Wed, Aug 18 2010 7:57 PM

  These are just some thoughts from someone who feels they're 'being promoted too quickly through the tiers'.

  Joined earlier this year, but had a hiatus imposed by work.  Still, progressed rapidly through Hack and Am, arriving at Pro in almost no time.  Bought some better clubs, and started hammering on CTTH challenges because they looked like the best alternative to a driving range.  And they've been hugely helpful for me ... shots are starting to feel like a reasonable exercise I can play with successfully.

  Then came a weekly 9-hole unlimited play, and checked up when I saw that my Hia back 9 scores were dropping my average quickly -- too quickly, for my liking.

  I'm not going master until i'm ready (if that happens).  Next tack for me is to start on harder loops, and let my average go the way it goes. If I go over (well, under) the threshold to Master, then so be it, but it'll only happen when I do it on the toughest sets.

  I wonder whether too many others aren't tempted to turn in the top-notch cards, then flip out when the tier upgrade stuns them.  I'm gonna sit back for a bit and get comfy at pro, while watching my average and making sure I don't get myself in over my head.  If that's thought of as sandbagging, then so be it ... in my mind, it's merely intelligent progression.

  Might the answer not be a walkthrough?  Stickied?

  "If you wanna get to master in 9 hours, here's how, but this is how it's gonna bite you in the butt!!!!!

  And go from there ...