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Re: UEL Tour !!!

Tue, Apr 1 2014 11:22 AM (37 replies)
  • MartyFlanagan
    2,488 Posts
    Sun, Mar 23 2014 8:11 PM

    it would be great to have more UEL tournaments on wgt, any type of tour would do

  • Jimbog1964
    8,378 Posts
    Sun, Mar 23 2014 8:29 PM

    fmagnets:

    CerinoDevoti:

    I'd like to know when the hell WGT is going to make UEL mainstream and offer every type game the same as the artificial flat lies games. It's not offered because there's something wrong with us I suppose so we don't deserve the same opportunities as folks playing the artificial flat lies.

    I believe it is not pushed because WGT are still embarrassed by it. Their goal is to make the game more realistic. UEL, as it is now, makes it more challenging. And it is logical so it is possible to understand it and overcome it. But it is not realistic. The more loft a club has, the extreme the effect of the lie is - the opposite to real golf.

    I think if they ever get to a stage where a golfer can come here, play the shot they would play in real life, and get a similar result, then WGT would be happy with it and it would become the main way to play the game. Until then it will probably remain niche.

    +1 

    That's it problem , well in fairness, away from theme being embarrassed about IMO.  It's a brave early doors look at things to come, but so was the 1990 dreamcast.

    Those that like it great.  Initially it is difficult to get up and just play, but only initially, and without realism I don't see it competing with the excellent simplicity of the flat lie game.  

    The flat lie game sims the true game so well (well better than anything else before or currently).  Note I am not saying UELs is easy, but neither is competing in the flat lie game.  For me that wonderful simplicity captures the real thing so much more than UELs.

    Once the angles are learned in UELs of course the scores are lower.  That in itself does not make it more difficult to compete, it just makes it a different competition.

    As say those that like it fine, but realistic it is not.  WGT will follow the $, and until UELs evolves to something more realistic that's not changing direction IMO.  

    As also said flat lies offers all the competition any one could want.  UELs does too, but it's not more difficult to compete, conditons same for all, just different.  They ever get it more realistic then it will be the way.  Until then the flat lie game offers competition in vast abundance, captures the essence of the real thing better, and so  I can't see things changing.

    Good luck with the uneven lie tour for those that like it.  I am sure there is a lot of fun for people who like the version, but on a par with the flat lie game money wise I just don't see it happening for all the reasons stated.

     

  • stevereilly
    5,910 Posts
    Mon, Mar 24 2014 12:44 PM

    Hi Corwyn, I am enjoying the UL tour, just a quick question though,  a few names seem to be missing from the combined scores/credits page of the speadsheet, (mine included), am I missing something?

    It seems that those whose username starts with a letter after M, have been omitted.

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Mon, Mar 24 2014 1:37 PM

    Hi Steve,

    Thank you so much for pointing that out! Yup, it was just an error. The number of players participating caught up and exceeded my original expectations, hence there were not enough rows any more in those sheets. 

    I've just fixed it in all affected sheets, and so it should now show a true order and final placing for everyone.

    Please note that I added in the final scores for wk12's tourney at Whistler this morning, but it will likely be Tuesday/Wednesday before WGT finalizes that leaderboard with prize allocations. Thus the Credit Standings are not yet final for the initial Winter Tour.

    Cheers, Corwyn

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Mon, Mar 24 2014 2:55 PM

    fmagnets:
    I believe it is not pushed because WGT are still embarrassed by it. Their goal is to make the game more realistic. UEL, as it is now, makes it more challenging. And it is logical so it is possible to understand it and overcome it. But it is not realistic. The more loft a club has, the extreme the effect of the lie is - the opposite to real golf.

    I don't think WGT are embarrassed by it at all... I think they're struggling to figure out how to apply it for the top echelon of the game without alienating the players who've decided they don't want to spend the effort to learn it. WGT has invested a lot of programming time on it, and I think they've done an incredible job. Yes, some of it seems extreme, especially close to the green when you're using a lofted club, but to my mind that does a better job of simulating the risk/reward that we should be facing on these tough Major-level courses.

    Jimbog1964:
    ...without realism I don't see it competing with the excellent simplicity of the flat lie game.  The flat lie game sims the true game so well

    I for one have to believe that it's more realistic to have an uneven lie (no matter how hard) than to always have artificial flat lies. In fact, I covered much of this ground in the earlier post in this thread. If you want to continue to debate the merits or demerits of UEL, please let's take it elsewhere, to one of the many other threads devoted to UEL. I'd prefer that this thread not get sidetracked. Thanks!

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Mon, Mar 24 2014 2:58 PM

    chrisironsbones:
    No one can ever say that Corwyn never puts a lot of effort into things

    I'll take that as a compliment, Chris! Thanks!

    chrisironsbones:
    All this work and effort should lead to something and deserves more not just recorded for the sake of it in spreadsheets.  WGT, and other members should donate credits/ prizes to make It worth while for both Corwyn and players and kick start an uneven lie tour which players will want to play as It gives them even more incentive and all Corwyns efforts could lead to a proper tour

    CerinoDevoti:
    I believe a proper UEL tour is the goal Corwyn is working toward.

    You're right Chris and Cerino. A proper UEL Tour is my goal. I want there to be a way for the players that love this format to really test themselves against the best in the business. UEL is the most challenging format we can play on WGT, and so my argument is that I want there to be high-profile events, and top-quality fields showing their skills. And, I want merit-based qualification for events like the UEL Ryder Cup.

    Also, I've put all this work into the spreadsheet for 2 other reasons: 1. As a learning exercise for myself, in how google sheets works, and 2. As an open-source resource for others wanting to set up tours of their own, within cc's, or in the community-at-large. There's no point in reinventing the wheel every time, and I'm ever so grateful to the excel geniuses that have pointed me in the right direction, and want to share what I've learned.

    Unfortunately, this Tour initiative has coincided with two other developments. Firstly, the return of Elite gift cards, making it more likely that the top players will focus on tourneys with the biggest payouts only, and find it hard to justify playing free weeklies where only the top placed players will even return their ball usage costs... and, secondly, the introduction of yet another level of expensive ball (700cr), making the above economics even harder. I fear there'll be less likelihood of finding willing donors to sponsor community tourneys...

    ... and so far, there has been no news from WGT in response to the many suggestions we've made asking for higher purses for these UEL weekly single-play tourneys. My hope was that they could be assigned WGT Nation double-prize fund status, as a way to help incentivize this tour. Or, might WGT sponsor end-of-tour prizes... even for tour standings that were being held independently by a community member. Not sure if they would... ?

    One other thing WGT could do is help promote the existence of this UEL Tour by doing a pop-up News item on it (as an example of what's happening in the community forums). If that helped get 100s, 1000s, more players to try UEL, perhaps that added ball usage could support increased prizes.

    And, finally, I'm certainly open to offers of prize sponsorship for this Tour, so let me know!

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Fri, Mar 28 2014 7:37 AM

    Corwyn:
    Please note that I added in the final scores for wk12's tourney at Whistler this morning, but it will likely be Tuesday/Wednesday before WGT finalizes that leaderboard with prize allocations. Thus the Credit Standings are not yet final for the initial Winter Tour.

    Well, it seems that with this week's big update (and I believe Shoe might be away till next week), there's a delay on the credit allocations for last week's tourneys (wk12).

    I was hoping to wrap up this Winter Tour by now, but it will have to wait till next week.

    Thanks for your patience.

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Tue, Apr 1 2014 11:22 AM

    WGT caught up yesterday and allocated credits for the final tourney in this initial, experimental Winter UEL Tour, and so I can now wrap it up...

    Wk12 at Whistler saw TallAcePaul produce an excellent 58 to win the TL event, while NLSunset took the tie-break win with a 63 in Legend tier.

    Here's the final UEL Tour Standings spreadsheet.

    Congrats to fmagnets, who didn't even need to play in wk12, but still held on to a commanding win in the Credits and Relative to Par standings. tikitaka shot a fine 60 to come in 1st place in the TL Average standings, with a stunning sub-60 average across his 7 rounds played. In the Combined Credits standings, fmagnets was some 300 cr ahead of the nearest challenger, underlining his domination of this initial tour.

    In Legend tier, I had the good fortune to come out on top in the various Standings... but then again, only I knew that a Tour was happening from the beginning, lol, so I had a bit of an advantage! (I was also aided by Adalanar's promotion to TL part way through).

    Since some people couldn't access the new Google Sheets, here again are some snapshots of some of the Standings sheets here in the thread (note that they're only the top 35+ places, just what fits on my screen).

    Click here to see the full google doc spreadsheet; once in the sheet, navigate via tabs at the bottom.

    Right-click, open in new Tab, to see these images full-size

    wk12 Tourney: Whistler scores:

    TL credit standings:

    TL 'Average' Standings:

    TL 'Relative to Par' Standings:


    L credit standings:

    L 'Average' Standings:

    L 'Relative to Par' Standings:

    TL & L best 9 scores Combined Credit Standings:

    TL & L best 9 scores Combined 'Relative to Par' Standings:

     

    -----------------

    Please note the Spring UEL Tour is already under way: see this thread here, and the new spreadsheet. The Spring edition is a 12 week tour taking us up to mid-June, just before the VUSO final rounds. Please note: this next edition will also be the qualifying event for any players wishing to be a part of the next UEL Ryder Cup, to be held at Pinehurst after the summer.

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