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Re: Elevations To Greens and...

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, Jun 23 2014 1:06 PM

  Dougie4042:

  The longest post, ever!  Awesome!  ;-)

  No it isn't. Paul handled it the same way I did.  That was over the top. Somebody needs to come up with Cliff Notes for that one.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, Jun 23 2014 4:36 PM

  spy88:

  Do you or do you not get see how far a fellow player hits his ball and how far it is from the hole?...Yes.

  OK boiis down all you want time wise is elevation.

  If instigated this will clutch issues from the jaws of zero problem as said.  

  If you still can't see that  think long, as you are against the tide.

  BUT all that said hard can it be?

  150 yards out, up 33 and 10 MPH headwind !

  Lets go: dist x 11 and result x 4% = 167.5 power needed. 

  Say average 3 to 4 seconds all done.

   

  Some holes do play a little different.  Mostly that's consistent to any given ball / club combo (spin per ball / club can affect outcome huge herel), just got to learn it.  Also there are some mapping issues with ball lies, and bunkers here are not particularly close to anything.

• spy88 205 Posts

  Mon, Jun 23 2014 5:06 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  It's a complete non issue from any angle except possibly giving an unfair advantage anyway.  If instigated would clutch issues with unfair advantage from the jaws of zero problem.

  Ok...I'm going to say it only one more time then I'm dropping it as no one seems to understand (which I can't understand).  Read this next paragraph...then read it again...and again until what is said and only what is said is taken at face value, applied to your own game (mentally) and understand it.

  Every player knows at all times, from tee to approach shot, what their distance to the hole is, regardless of who's turn it is.  Giving the elevation at all times, for every player from tee to approach shot with their distance, advantages no one, disadvantages no one. 

  The point was not, is not now and never will be the "difficulty" in making a club/swing strength choice.  My original thought for the suggestion was that it may decrease game times.  Whether it would or not is no longer my issue.  I am now only interested in knowing why WGT "sees" a 1 player advantage at any point in play.  Because it simply wouldn't be there.  Period.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, Jun 23 2014 5:28 PM

  spy88:

  Every player knows at all times, from tee to approach shot, what their distance to the hole is, regardless of who's turn it is.  Giving the elevation at all times, for every player from tee to approach shot with their distance, advantages no one, disadvantages no one. 

  So what? What's the big deal? I know before my shot what I'm going to hit, does that mean I have an advantage over someone that has calculator at the ready, waiting to see that magic elevation number so they can complete pushing the buttons?

  You're sounding like a gamer, not a golfer. JMO.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, Jun 23 2014 5:53 PM

  spy88:

  original thought for the suggestion was that it may decrease game times.

  spy88:

  only interested in knowing why WGT "sees" a 1 player advantage at any point in pla

  Ok so you now fully accept makes no difference to time, great progress:)

  Only issue now left is advantage:

  WGT are faced with changing something that:

  1. At worst ,for reasons explained whether you agree or not, could impact on fairness;

  2. At best satisfies an idle curiosity that impacts naught on game scoring or time.

  No prizes guessing where that one is most likely to go.

   

• spy88 205 Posts

  Mon, Jun 23 2014 6:19 PM

  YankeeJim:

  What's the big deal?

  There is no "big deal" to me.  I simply made a suggestion and would very much appreciate a logical, necessary and understandable reason from WGT as to why withholding elevation is such a "big deal" to them.

   

• spy88 205 Posts

  Mon, Jun 23 2014 6:43 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  Ok so you now fully accept makes no difference to time, great progress:)

  "...may decrease game times" is a far cry from saying I "fully accept" no difference in (game play) time.  Until my suggestion is put into play, neither of us, or WGT, know for sure. 

  Jimbog1964:

  1. At worst ,for reasons explained whether you agree or not, could impact on fairness;

  I've consistently explained why there is no "impact on fairness". If the logic eludes you, another explanation won't help.

  Jimbog1964:

  ...impacts naught on game scoring or time.

  Exactly!   Same as saying no player has a advantage during play.  Thank you for agreeing with me!

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Mon, Jun 23 2014 7:12 PM

  spy88:

  If the logic eludes you, another explanation won't help.

  Logic in inverted comma's.  I side with WGT rationale.  Gave you my reason, and so agree to differ with you.

  spy88:

  Thank you for agreeing with me!

  Please re read:)

  spy88:

  "...may decrease game times" is a far cry from saying I "fully accept" no difference in (game play) time.

  My mistake.  It could save anything from 3 to 5 seconds sometimes..............Seriously that matters??

  Look you said somewhere we will not know unless they try it.  Forum threads we can all talk at cross purposes a bit if not careful.  Mate on this one you just need to step back a little - in the nicest way OK.  Now no disrespect, but one said low tier player who does not know shot calcs versus another same some time may be saved.  Now even there I can see issues as if they do not understand enough to think they need that (time or any other reason) they know not enough about clubs / balls / spin settings etc.  

  It's faffing at best though, just delaying the fact that people need to understand how to do it for themselves.  Once that is understood all this is a non issue at best.  Now two V good players maybe skyping discussing everything is different, but this is obviously not what you are on about.  If you care about scoring, speeding things up whatever really you need to address what is really wrong with your game, not faff around with this stuff that at best is not going to make any difference any which way.  Save for the hybrid you still carry which is as useful as a chocolate teapot for this game (assuming you usually use it) you have plenty of equipment to score well, just got to learn how to use it.  By all means hit me up for a game / whatever if your scoring is a concern.  

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Tue, Jun 24 2014 4:58 AM

  spy88:

  would very much appreciate a logical, necessary and understandable reason from WGT as to why withholding elevation is such a "big deal" to them.

  OK, let's take a different approach. 4 players off the tee and waiting for their next shot. WGT would have to look at each golfer separately at the same time to figure out what their particular circumstance was. A lot of busy work the game would have to perform to provide that individual condition.

  So, instead of focusing on the player that was up, the game would have to incorporate the other 3 situations individually to assess the info, generate the stat and then display it. Way too much unnecessary coding to pull it off and to what end? A few seconds off the time of the match? Doubt it will ever happen.  :-)

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Tue, Jun 24 2014 6:51 AM

  YankeeJim:

  OK, let's take a different approach. 4 players off the tee and waiting for their next shot. WGT would have to look at each golfer separately at the same time to figure out what their particular circumstance was. A lot of busy work the game would have to perform to provide that individual condition.

  With all due respect Jim, you should stick with cabinet making. ;o)

  Since the game already has your distance to the pin, it either has the elevation difference already or its a very simple calc to get it.  In x,y,z coordinates its merely Zpin - Zball = Elevation.  Adding it to the display is also very easy.  Not a lot of "busy work" to be done.

  Besides, our computers are doing next to nothing while we wait on the other players and our computer is where the easy calc would be done.