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Re: I need a FoolProof technique against cross winds

Mon, Jul 28 2014 9:42 AM (85 replies)
  • JFidanza
    1,676 Posts
    Thu, May 29 2014 2:53 AM

    fatdan:

    skccvb:
    (but add yardage to offset loss of distance on off-ding)

    fatdan:

    When I barely hit early into the wind(pull) I find that the ball doesn't lose any distance in fact it's longer half the time...now when I barely miss into the wind late(push) it loses yardage....anybody else see that?

     

    --------------

    I'm reading into the possibility that a ball spinning clockwise compared to one spinning counter-clockwise (e.g. against a wind from the right ) could have different aerodynamic variables of the 'Magnus effect.' 

    In addition: 

    "A common cause of a sliced shot is the striking of the ball with an open clubface. In this case, the opening of the clubface also increases the effective loft of the club and thus increases the total spin of the ball. With all other factors held constant, a higher ball spin rate will in general produce a higher lift force and this is why a slice shot will often have a higher trajectory than a straight or hook shot."

     

    http://www.google.com/patents/US8550938

  • fatdan
    3,379 Posts
    Thu, May 29 2014 11:02 AM

    JFidanza:

    In test cases, speaking for myself, I have had less balls fall into the water attempting C than attempting A - which has the common result of B for reasons stated.

    So, I'll set aim for a pre-ding to decrease the element of risk -

    and increase the achievability & chances of a non-detrimental green landing by allowing myself a larger margin of error.  [Drink a Miller Light]

    YankeeJim can explain it better than I can but  every club has a circle of precision when dinged, lets say the circle is around the pin...

    With better clubs that circle with no wind  is said to be 12ft in diameter(6ft long/short left/right),the less precision rating the club has, the wider the circle...if you hit just short of or just past the ding you eliminate half that circle theoretically....

    with wind, by hitting into it you eliminate that WTF shot when you miss late totally, and the random deviation of the dinged shot....I think YJ called it "smart misses"....

    Maybe he will elaborate on it if he sees the post....all I know is if there is a L to R wind 10mph I aim left and still hit into the wind and I am never on the right side of the flag more than 3ft....if there is water/sand/downhill slope right, I am NEVER R of the flag period! Might have a longer putt but I ain't wet, sandy, and my putt isn't a 40 ft'er

    The circle is smaller with wedges/short irons of course...smart missing is huge with drivers of the tee...trouble right or left miss into the wind and virtually eliminate it assuming you aimed correctly...

     

    edit: this circle refers to where the ball lands, not roll out/backspin....

     

  • Jimbog1964
    8,378 Posts
    Thu, May 29 2014 2:32 PM

       Reading quickly most of the above the below may help.  I saved it all in word, but forgot to copy the actual link / s.  Threads are probably easy enough to find, but to best of my knowledge the below is an exact copy.

    @ JFI now:

    Honestly I think (per the below) it's best not to make too much of this.  Also with a starter ball you can't expect too much any which way.  I think keeping it simple is the way to go.  Personally (think as I said before) I would forget all about shot shaping at T Pro but maybe look to refine, if I was using something better than a starter ball, once well settled in to the tips (Legend distance). Your game to enjoy as you wish though.

    All below written a while a go so that has to be in mind (looking quickly at club speed part particularly), but still a very effective explanation overall.

    Anyway here it is as follows:

     

     

     

     

       

    WGTniv

    United States

    WGTniv

    1,788 Posts

    04-30-2010 1:34 AM

    ·         Hi Pebbles,

    ·         Balance works with the putter's precision rating and represents consistency throughout the different distance increments of your putter.  The higher the balance rating, the more you can rely on the ball consistently going the distance you've struck your putt, especially so on longer putts.  Balance also works with forgiveness in a very similar manner to help reign in the effect of off-center hits, also making them react more consistently on longer putts.

    ·         Hope that answers your question. =)

     

     

    Club Forgiveness v Precision

    Ultimately you want precision, if you can handle the meter speed.  The more precise the club, they more it will go where you want it when you ding a shot.

     

    http://www.wgt.com/Themes/wgt/images/icon-quote.gif WGTniv:

    Forgiveness shifts the precision circle left or right (and usually short) depending on how much you mishit and what the forgiveness rating of the club is.  Clubs with lesser forgiveness ratings shift the circle left/right more on mishits.

    This is why (especially on low precision clubs) you can mishit slightly right of the mark and have the ball go left instead.  Mishitting right shifts the circle to the right, but part of the circle is still "leftover" on the left side of the flag, so it has the potential to land there.

    http://www.wgt.com/Themes/wgt/images/icon-quote.gif WGTniv:

    The game is pretty simple.  Precision controls your accuracy.  Imagine it's like a circle that surrounds the flagstick when you aim at it.  The size of that circle is related to the precision rating.  The higher the rating the smaller the circle.  Your ball can land anywhere in the circle on a dinged shot (left or right, long or short).  It will ALWAYS land in the circle on a ding shot, though sometimes it may land in the center of the circle and sometimes it may land on the very outer edge or anywhere in between those two points.  When it lands on the outer edge this is what you guys have come to know as "the beast".  Was the shot pre-programmed? Does it know you're standing on the 17th hole at Kiawah?  No, it's just unfortunate timing.  The result you see is the logical spread dictated by the precision rating of the club over 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 shots taken on the site.  No matter how big or small the sample it'samazingly consistent because it is after all only a simple mathematical formula.  The shot data is spread out amongst all users, so there will be times when you run into a lot of "edge cases" (aka deviations, aka outside edge of the precision circle) and times where you seemingly can't miss the center (even when you mishit).  This is the ebb and flow of the game and it's always been there.  In the short term you will have "bad" days and "good" days.  In the long term (providing they are using the same clubs) any one player will see the same amount of "edge cases" or "deviations" that the rest of the players do.

     

    Cheers

     

    Circle to help explain

     

     

     

  • navigater
    1,319 Posts
    Thu, May 29 2014 6:40 PM

    I had the G10s.Now that I have the new Nike club's.They drift even more than the G 10's.

    I think the higher launch angle has something to do with that.lol.

    navi.

  • borntobesting
    9,706 Posts
    Fri, May 30 2014 1:56 AM

    alexk345:

    100% accuracy? I do not care about yardage issue here. I only need idea on marker movement on long irons.

    There may be no foolproof method if WGT implements here what they have added to the mobile game in the last week or so. I call it variable wind speeds. The wind speed is a range of 3 to 4 mph not a single number. Sure 3 to 4 mph is not going to make that big a difference but it just might make it a little harder to throw darts.

  • chris2345
    528 Posts
    Fri, May 30 2014 2:30 PM

    Knowing where to aim against cross winds can only come from from years of experance and thousands of rounds.

    There is no shortcuts. 

  • franch88
    1 Posts
    Fri, May 30 2014 7:59 PM

    I have managed to figure out a way to adjust for the wind, especially when going for the green. I put the flag at 7 feet. using this as an indicator, I move the blue triangular target in the direction  of the wind a foot for each mph of wind.

    Example: the wind comes in left at 14 mph, I move the target to the right (in reverse view) two flag pole lengths.....

    This is not 100%, but if I get the right distance, I normally end up with a gimme....

    Good luck

  • fatdan
    3,379 Posts
    Sat, May 31 2014 10:56 AM

    franch88:

    Example: the wind comes in left at 14 mph, I move the target to the right (in reverse view) two flag pole lengths.....

    This is not 100%, but if I get the right distance, I normally end up with a gimme....

    Good luck

    14mph = 14' per 100 yrds....150yds 14mph wind move it 1.5' per mph...200yds 2' per mph....75yds .75 ...you get the idea...

    and that can vary...some people use 1.2/1.3 instead of 1 etc etc...you just have to figure your clubs out....

     

    the best way is to go to chip mode, zoom in, and use the grid to be more exact...I just move the aim box because I'm lazy, that's why I suck except on days I get lucky and make a couple of long putts...

     

  • gr8flbob
    592 Posts
    Sat, May 31 2014 3:00 PM

    JFidanza:

    My recent tests in a high crosswind game seemingly indicated that the driver was fading/drawing but the other clubs were not,

    gr8flbob If you choose to respond on my wall rather than here, I would have no issue, and I thank you in advance for your input on this common rudiment of golf technique.

    JF,

    1. Your clubset is same as mine except for 3W (you G20 Ping, me R11s) and level of Nike VF.

    2. After the criticism received (and extended retesting through my iron set, with variety of spin settings and amout 'off-ding', lol!) I've retracted my original claim for producing draws and fades with irons. (here's a link; scroll ~half-way down 237339.aspx?PageIndex=6 )

    3. R-11s 3W, at least, can give some 'shot-shaping' mild draw and fade shots. The driver shot-shape may manipulated at will.

     

     

  • JFidanza
    1,676 Posts
    Tue, Jul 22 2014 11:09 PM

    Once in a while I'll type in numbers in Kat's cal and this is what has been coming up after a few custom adjustments of my own:

     

    distance: 145 yards

     

    Wind speed           --       Move aim marker

     

    8mph                     -         19'

     

    13mph                   -         27.7'

     

    16mph                   -         34'

     

    21mph                    -        44.7' 

     

    Of course, results will vary with different clubs, balls, and shot type.

     

    Also, I've been testing the advice that a 20 mph crosswind (90 degrees)...

    - if it is a 20 mph wind that is at 45 degrees (e.g. blowing approx. 2 o clock to 8 o clock) then that has the general affect of a 10 mph crosswind. (half of 20)

    But I am still testing that and I welcome any input on that presumption.

    p.s.

    I think it may have been mentioned that a 100 yard shot hit with 100 yards of power with no wind, if it's the same shot with a crosswind of, say, 18 mph (90 degrees) then you will have to add more power because the ball is not traveling 'as the crow flies' (it's curving and traveling farther) and it is moving thru more air, etc.

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