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Re: QUITTERS

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Sun, Aug 9 2009 5:17 AM

  Don't understand anything in your post, Script, but to give everyone an idea of what a "pleasurable" (not!) experience a typical multi-player game on WGT.com is, I've started a new blog entry on my profile page, titled Quitters Stats (No Names Given, Just Statistics). In that blog entry, I'll be recording my mostly futile attempts at completing a multi-player half-round. Here are my 2 attempts at a multi-player game from this afternoon; I assure you that these are typical examples, illustrating the usual "customer experience" a user currently gets from WGT.com multi-players. WGT should definitely do something to halt the quitters:

  Faterson:

  • 20090809: 4-some launched; one person apparently disconnected after the Tee Off button was pressed, pulling everyone else into a prolonged time-out of several minutes. The game did not start at all & everyone disconnected without playing a single shot.

  • 20090809: 4-some launched; 1 player recognized as a quitter from a previous round; let's see how long he/she can last this time!    Update on hole 4: one player got into multiple bunkers & disconnected without saying anything, despite having chatted previously. Prior to tee-off on hole 5: the remaining 2 players disconnected as well, including (without saying good-bye) the player formerly recognized as a quitter; the other person mumbled something about connection problems & quickly disconnected without waiting for an answer from the only remaining co-player, despite having engaged in profuse chatting previously. Faterson, left alone on hole 5, duly disconnects as well, because it wasn't a single-play round he wanted to play. So, that's 2 attempts at a multi-player game, and both of them failed. Is Faterson likely to attempt another multi-player game? Not so! And if he does, it's very likely that the games will fail just like the 2 previous ones...

• Script 621 Posts

  Sun, Aug 9 2009 5:57 AM

  Sorry Faterson.  I was implying that playing at work being compromised by quitters is not a very legitimate excuse to attack the quitters.  Most people 'ought' to be working at work and accept the risk. 

  Too bad you get so distracted by them.  I've enjoyed my rounds with those that have remained after the quitter abandoned us.  One can always use that opportunity to complain about the quitter but it has no effect on personal game results. 

  If you want to be assured of a 'No Quitter' round,  invite me and two others that will guarantee to play to the finish.  So far....I always do.  :)

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Sun, Aug 9 2009 7:03 AM

  Script:

  I was implying that playing at work being compromised by quitters is not a very legitimate excuse to attack the quitters. Most people 'ought' to be working at work and accept the risk.

  I apologize, still unable to follow your logic (or, indeed, syntax) here. Plus, I'm self-employed. Plus, instead of "work", it could be browsing the news or processing private emails. No matter what. It's your legitimate expectation upon joining a multi-player game that it will be a multi-player game and not a single-player game after a few holes played.

  Script:

  I've enjoyed my rounds with those that have remained after the quitter abandoned us.

  Very frequently, you are the only person left because 3 out of 4 people are quitters. That doesn't happen sometimes, but very often. See the 2 examples detailed in my previous post.

  Script:

  If you want to be assured of a 'No Quitter' round, invite me and two others that will guarantee to play to the finish.

  Thanks for the offer! If that were easy to do, I'd do so. But, in addition to all the quitters trouble, we also have those misleading green dots on this site (not really telling us if someone is available), and my work schedule is packed as it is without scheduling virtual golf games to begin at predetermined points of time, and so... we're at an impasse.   

• Script 621 Posts

  Sun, Aug 9 2009 3:57 PM

  Perhaps we ought to target getting the green dot fixed!   The green dot is an issue that, in my opinion, deserves attention.

   Hopefully I'll coincidentally be available when you are.  Would enjoy a round. 

  Don't own a syntax...wouldn't know what to do with it if I did...:)

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Sun, Aug 9 2009 11:25 PM

  Script:

  Don't own a syntax...wouldn't know what to do with it if I did...:)

  You could push words around at will.  

• shtebs 38 Posts

  Mon, Aug 10 2009 6:24 AM

  At the risk of beating a horse which has long since expired,  I think that Faterson has touched on the essence of what makes the "quitters" problem so vexing for many of us. It is our  "legitimate expectation" of enjoying a multiplayer game when other players join a group.  Given the option of single or multi player mode, joining a group implies that we wish to play with others. Unceremoniously and abruptly disconnecting after a bad shot or bad hole is simply rude.

   I realize that its just a game and that there are far more important things in the world to worry about. However, in the context of this particular  little virtual golf world, it is a "problem" for many of us (A "frustration" might be a more accurate word).  Just as obviously, based upon the multitude of  disconnects I have endured, it is neither a problem nor even a minor concern  for many others.  So, like Faterson and others, I simply keep a list of players to avoid and we all peacefully coexist in the WGT world.

• stinkyTOE 9 Posts

  Mon, Aug 10 2009 10:00 AM

  sorry dont know what i'm doing

• stinkyTOE 9 Posts

  Mon, Aug 10 2009 10:24 AM

  nice, but... what if... the game could take care of it's self .mabey a score could be kept insureing a match . if a person plays at work you run the risk of quiting, so it might be a little harder getting or keeping a game than the person who is at home and and has plenty of time . kind of a reward / punishment thing 

   

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Mon, Aug 10 2009 11:33 AM

  The last few proposals, StinkyTOE, took into account what you say. They only said: force every player to finish every ranked round (even if later on outside a multi-player), or accept a penalty instead. The choice would be up to the player. So, quitting would be permitted; you'd just have to finish your round later on when you're not disturbed by work or real life. This would be an effective measure to reduce the amount of quitters, precisely because most quitters leave their multi-player rounds not for the legitimate reasons you mention, but because they want to protect their average scores.

  That's why WGT should instill a penalty for every unfinished ranked round. (The penalty might automatically be forfeited for unfinished single-player ranked rounds, however, as well as for the last player abandoned on the course in a failed multi-player game.) Several possible penalties have been proposed so far:

  • Increase the quitter's average score by, say, 1 point; opposed by some users, because it would make life easy for sandbaggers.
  • Make the quitter's next ranked round not count towards his/her average score, and mark that round with an asterisk in the quitter's Score History; this would foil both quitters' and sandbaggers' intentions. It would also speak volumes if you saw lots of asterisks in a player's Score History.
  • Implement a "quit 3 times in a day and receive a 2 hour ban" rule.
  • Extrapolate the quitter's score at the moment of disconnection.
  • No penalty per se, but simply state the percentage of completed rounds next to every player's name on the players selection screen prior to the launch of a multi-player round, and on every player's profile page.
  • Employ Ignore lists on this site.
  • Instead of punishing quitters, reward those who finish their multi-player games. (For example, by giving 1 credit to the winner, half a credit to the runner-up, and a quarter of a credit to the second runner-up of every completed multi-player game.)

  Let us hope we'll soon see WGT adopting one of the options listed above (or their combination), or a similar penalty/reward system!  

  (Edited on 20090813 to incorporate another penalty suggestion by kinkydevil. Also compare an alternative suggestion by djnels32. Edited again on 20090815 for further clarification. Another edit on 20090819 to add the "reward-the-finishers" suggestion proposed in posts by blaze401 & TheSpaghettiKid, fine-tuned from here. Updated again on 20090918 to include the extrapolation suggestion.)

• Script 621 Posts

  Mon, Aug 10 2009 3:05 PM

  Since averages are really  irrelevant except when they take you to a new level, it is amazing that  people retire before the end of a round. It's just a way to have fun and meet folks that enjoy computer golf.  I guess,since the debate will never end, I'm on the side of a percentage of completed rounds approach and let the group starter be the judge.

  On the other hand, I enjoy all my rounds and don't care about quitters anyway.

  This is still a great game!