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Re: Could someone explain this ?

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 8:12 AM

  well then, that explains quite a bit.

  i'd probably be upset if i was in the red with this game, but since i'm not, i'll just go with a whateva.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 8:52 AM

  Thanks F, for the lead. Totally interesting and 2 immediate questions come to my mind; Is this intended deviation score-based or "ding"- based? If it's ding- based I like my way of aiming by missing-maybe it skews the model. It would explain why  my own WTF rounds have diminished. I used to get them when I was progressing but they seem to have tapered off as I got better. (Prob way off in the thinking but maybe not.)

  The second question would be what is wrong with it? I do believe it will separate the really good players from the less fortunate therefore allowing more parity, as such. The Elite tier looks more logical now and I point to Bollux/ALee/tibbets  as  prime examples. It aint bothering them so how does that factor in? There are players good enough to where the model can't leash them. They belong in a class by themselves and it looks like this model may facilitate that. Interesting thinking, anyway. JMO

   

• AvatarLee 1,644 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 9:02 AM

  Does it bother me? No.  Does it impact me? Yes!  Have a look at my last 2 rounds... near identical conditions, 9 stroke difference!!  The only difference in the conditions was the bad round (66) was on slow greens (which seemed SUPER slow) and the good round (57) was on Very Fast greens....  Now, I don't know how often this VEM monitors skill level and adjusts, but there was something totally different from one round to the next that I couldn't put my finger on (pardon the pun).  So we are not out of the realm of being impacted by this model, in fact I think that we are the most impacted by it because of the skill level we play at.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 9:04 AM

  AvatarLee:

  Have a look at my last 2 rounds... near identical conditions, 9 stroke difference!!

  Heh-this is just to keep those britches from getting too small. :-D

   

• tibbets 1,043 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 9:19 AM

  Agree with AvatarLee, it's the top of the food chain that gets affected the most by it.  The longer you've consistently been there, the greater the impact. 

  I've been saying it for quite some time, we don't all play by the same rules, and have been called paranoid, a tin-foil hat wearer, whiner etc. for saying so.  I trust those accusations can be put to rest now.

  For what it's worth, I do think it's a really good model.  Bringing a degree of parity into the game encourages more people to stick with it, which can only mean good things for the future of the game.  The top of the food chain are the ones most capable of dealing with added difficulty...though not without an extreme measure of frustration at times :)

  C'est la vie, it's a game, so lets just have some fun, do the best we can do, and let the chips fall where they may.

• jayjonbeach 689 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 9:59 AM

  I still contend that I would like to see some added difficulty to the game via lie considerations (coming soon hopefully on road map) and possibly a 3 click meter, not sure what else but with added difficulty you could reduce some of the random effects to have similiar results, added difficulty keeping scores in check only you'll know more why you missed your shots rather than this "beast" or deviation explaination.

  Having wind gusts for the random effects always keeping you on your toes does make the most sense too, but I guess it doesn't really matter how they allocate the randomness, what really matters is the amount of it and how big the effects are to try and keep it as realistic as possible.

• donsprintr 2,063 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 10:30 AM

  Well this goes a long way in explaining things .... and i think it stinks.

  Because ... it sometimes penalizes excellent performance. Think of those perfectly struck shots you've made only to see a wild result. One of mine that comes to mind is hitting a shot on beth #8 in a crosswind , 185 yds with full backspin and watching it FLY 193 yds and then spin backwards with all the spin rate of a master 60 degree wedge. Now that my friends is not even in the realm of reality. It is insanity ...

  I am of the opinion that poor shots (miss hit shots) are justifiably worthy of having a deviation factor added to them (why reward a poor shot?) , and the further off you are the more penal the result .... this just seems to me to be common sense and accords with reality ...

  If there are randomly programmed deviations that act at unknown times and even on perfectly executed shots, then that renders this game nothing more than a crap shoot ... and that is a discouragement as some will say , "why even try when the computerized system is designed to hamper my performance and the better i get at it, the greater the programmed "failure" factor?"

  That my friends can only lead to more sandbagging type activity, where poor performance is the rule to keep your deviation factor down until you wish to shoot for a prize ... is anyone following me on this one?

  If WGT wishes to increase difficulity, it could be done in a very simple and concise manner and one that mirrors real life golf ...

  The solutions are three ...

  1. Eliminate the programmed "crap shoot" programming (if indeed it is programmed that way) ... i can only see it leading to frustration and an exodus of people from WGT ...

  2. Penalize miss hits,miss judged wind levels and miss judged distances only ... the severity could be increased as the players skill level increases ...

  3. Add winds that vary in intensity and duration of intensity (ex. a 5 mph wind that blows for two or three seconds and then suddenly gusts to 7 or 10 and then drops back to 5 or something along those lines) ... this most mirrors the reality of winds in real life i would say ... the duration and intensity could again be increased as the players skill level increases ... and the duration and intensity should be displayed at all times so that a player who's shot is affected by these "random" winds can replay the shot and see what caused the problem ...

  This to me is the sanest approach to the situation ...

• cobra4 359 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 10:52 AM

  For all the time and effort some players have tried to do on here in getting to the bottom of club problems and helping wgt by starting good threads and submitting bug reports, and general discusions to find out the problem, Slash un-earths a little gem off a find in "THE VEM", Sorry to say this guys but we have been fobbed off for months now by WGT and ALEX, saying "submit a bug report", they have totaly had us all over  and that is fact. No more bug reports are needed from now on it seems,its a bit off a betrayal by wgt for the paying customers

• iukine 195 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 10:53 AM

  This goes back to what I used to say, we need more tiers. That my friends is the only answer. I don't have any problems with any type of shot variations in this game or the fact that some fellas consistently shoot in the low 60s, but me go against them in a,say, ready go tourney, forget it. Even with VEM or the Beast, I don't stand a chance. Even if I play lites out, I'm just not that good of a gamer. WGT needs to address this and find a solution. It's tuff to enter a game knowing I'm gonna finish no better than 15th or so, every time. You guys are excellent players and should be Masters, I'm an OK player and should be either a Pro or Amateur. Although I like the title, it's you low score shooters that deserve the title Master. We all have to deal with the Beast and rightfully so(damn thing shows up in my real game!!) and we just have to work around it, Like real golf. HMMMMMMM...............!

• WGTadmin 1,166 Posts

  Mon, Jan 25 2010 11:16 AM

  To clarify, there is no "behind the curtain" tweaking of the equipment based on a player's skill. The performance characteristics of the equipment is made visible in the Pro Shop.  As you move up tiers, you get access to equipment that performs differently, and you're in control of what equipment you use.

  WGT does not change the performance of existing clubs based on the play of the individual using it.