Forums

Re: How to make WGT like real golf

• DAZZA501 5,972 Posts

  Mon, Jun 18 2012 4:39 PM

  Quite simply take some of the spin away from the iron sets. You shouldn't be able to stop a 3iron dead.

• Jolexi 429 Posts

  Mon, Jun 18 2012 4:43 PM

  I agree with almost everything you guys are saying. This game definitely needs toughening up, but I don't like the idea of increasing deviation, not on dinged shots anyway.

  Sometimes when you set it all up lovely, you've figured out all the variables and then you ding it, you think "yes, nice 1" and then the deviation decides you haven't really and you end up yards away, then what's the point?

  I say make the striking area smaller, bring the lines either side of the ding in a bit, and make those areas true draw and fade areas, instead of the false shot shaping we have now. Reward the ding for what it is (2yrds either side of dead on, saying there is no wind seams fair) and then make the ball curve offline depending on how much you miss it by.

  A miss outside those lines could then be anything the deviation chooses.....slice, hook, thin, fat, shank.....whatever.

  Also make attacking the flag realistic. If the pin is 5yrds behind a bunker on a downslope, then don't make it possible to stick it inside 10ft with a 3iron. You will have to play to a certain part of the green to give a chance of birdie instead.

  Putting could be made harder (even though I struggle with it already) by removing the dots and emphasising the grid colours more for the slopes, and then make us REALLY read it instead of dot speed formulas and elevation/distance equations.

  There are many ways, and there are a lot of guys on here with some very good ideas.

  BUT WILL WGT LISTEN AND TAKE NOTE???

• Woodoworkery 3,498 Posts

  Mon, Jun 18 2012 4:59 PM

  DylynJ:

  In REAL LIFE the Open was WON with a +1 on Olympic in FOUR ROUNDS.

  Any questions>?

  I wrote WGT Pizza on this subject , I am still waiting on an answer.

• Tightrope 1,072 Posts

  Mon, Jun 18 2012 5:43 PM

  I'm thorn in this area. I bought the G20 driver and it is amazing. With the Nike's you drive average around 300 yds and it is so forgiving you really have to work hard to miss the fairway. It changes my play a lot, take St Andrews for instance, there is some holes where I always held back with my R9, but now I just aim for the narrow gutters and I usually hit them. Of course, it is nice to get low scores but since a perfect drive for us is simply a twitch in our index finger in the right moment, I am not sure that making it even easier is the right way.

  I think maybe the long clubs should be difficult to play and if you want max yardage, maybe the forgiveness should shrink even more. Maybe that after 90% the forgiveness drops to basically zero at 100% power. There should maybe a be a risk to try to get those extra yards. I am still not at level 83 so I can try the G20 irons, but if the play similar as the driver and the wood...

  Also, as someone has mentioned, we get a lot of spin. It is rare that I check the elevations on the green apart from determining if it is up or downhill to the pin so I can apply the right amount of spin. The right amount will be the "dead duck" ball that rolls max 3ft after touch down. I was watching the US Open on TV and I do not think I saw any approach shots that resembled the ones we make in WGT.

  Tricky to judge this. On one hand it is fun  to have equipment that ends up where you aim, but it takes out one element of golf that is quite interesting - reading the green and play an approach shot that will roll 7-8 yards or more. 

  Since the equipment is available, it is hard to go back to worse equipment. Your scores will drop considerably.

  But I think that if the really long and "spinny" equipment, balls like the Nikes, would be very unforgiving and have a high meter speed, then we average players would avoid them and settle with a 250yds driver and balls and irons that rolls 5-6 yards on the green. We would sacrifice precision for forgiveness.

  As it is, you do not need to sacrifice, you can get equipment that is superb in every area.

  What about if clubs always had the same total amount when adding the numbers for forgiveness, precision, distance and feel?

  A club for the pro's:

  Distance: 60
  Spin: 20
  Forgiveness: 10
  Feel: 10

  A club for us normal people

  Distance: 45
  Spin: 10
  Forgiveness: 25
  Feel: 20

  Beginners

  Distance: 30
  Spin: 5
  Forgiveness: 35
  Feel: 30

  Of course, it is impossible to implement anything similar to that overnight, it would change everything and make all stats void. But game is still beta and sooner or later I think it is necessary to make a reset on some statistics anyway.

• tjos 231 Posts

  Mon, Jun 18 2012 9:04 PM

  Hi guys,an interesting forum but maybe a little unrealistic to see the kind of changes that would have to be made to make this game more difficult.

  I don't  think by making the game harder the poor players (like myself, just an average legend) are ever going to keep up their interest and burn up balls trying to hit a green that has only red, blue or black lines or whatever.  Only in the real 3D world can you putt on greens without the kind of help WGT already provides.  For me it's hard enough now to putt a ball in over 10 feet from the pin with some of those side hill putts we all know and love.   As far as the ball stopping dead on greens:  from my experience that doesn't happen all the time no matter what club I use.  Some greens yes,  some greens no. 

  Making the clubs more unforgiving?  I sure hope not,  as it is if I hit a pixel left or a pixel right of the sweet spot it throws the ball way off especially if I haven't compensated quite enough for wind direction.  If a professional golfer hit the sweet spot, as it were,  every time he swung,  he would always be in the fairway too,  or on the green.  But they are in the human realm not the virtual one so that type of perfection doesn't exist..  It can and does exist here in the virtual world though which I believe  is the bases for this forum.   It wouldn't matter if WGT made the game more difficult,  except of course for their loss of customers,  there would still be those who rise to the top and are just really good at this game.  Nothing would change in my humble opinion and we would be back to some other argument in ways to improve this site.  Please guys,  no more talk of making the game harder,  I can't afford what I'm spending now for the number of balls I lose.

  If you would like the game harder let WGT plan a few tournaments with starter balls, or try playing with cheaper clubs,  not the up to date best of everything.  (I have those too so I'm not trying to be condescending)    then you will see some whacky scores for sure.  So I guess what I'm trying to say is,   I ain't for WGT making the game harder.

  I don't mind seeing the low scores from the "great ones" of this game.  They've worked for it and deserve it.    I want the game to remain fun for me.   Thank u

   

   

• Tightrope 1,072 Posts

  Tue, Jun 19 2012 12:43 AM

  tjos:

   I want the game to remain fun for me.   Thank u

  That is the dilemma for all game developers - make the game fun while keeping it reasonably realistic within it's own context. WGT's tagline is "The most realistic game on the web" (which is quite a statement considering they left out 'golf' in that sentence) so I assume realism is both a goal for WGT and a important ingredient for the players. 

  And yes, in some areas it is quite realistic but in others it is not. There is some areas where realism is not possible to achieve, most notably the actual swing itself, but other areas where it could be more realistic and that is the behavior of the ball in flight and in contact with the ground. We can hit the greens with our drivers, if wind is not to extreme in our faces, on two par 4 holes at Cabo del Sol and have the ball stop almost dead after a 300 yard flight. Would that ever be possible IRL? I can not say for sure, but I have never seen anything like it. If we miss the fairway into a 30-40 rough it usually stops without even rolling an inch. If a similar shot lands just short of the green it bounces, goes over the green and stops 30-40 yards later.

  IRL you often see the players choose an iron instead of the driver to play it safe, we never need to do that. We see the real players hit approach shots from 50 yards that rolls 10 yards on the green. That happens to us only if we use the starter balls. We see the real players chip deliberately 4-5 yards away from the pin in order to get a decent chance with the putter, we use our Cleveland from the rough, aim straight at the pin and with full backspin it stops within a few feets after landing, even if it is downhill. 

  Sure, some of these shots we do are possible IRL, but they are very rare and trying them is risky. Maybe WGT calculates spin amount into the precision algorithm, but maybe not enough. How much harder is it, IRL, to be accurate if you use full spin?

  WGT is not a simulator, but it attempt to simulate golf anyway. Only computer "simulators" I have experience with is motor racing games. They can either go "arcade" (easy but not realistic) or "simulator" (car is expected to behave as a real car). If it is a F1 simulator, the car you drive is expected to have the same brake efficiency, same corner and top speed as the real car would on a real track. Ideally, you should be able to watch an in car footage of Michael Schumacher's qualifying lap and use his braking points as your own reference.

  Sim vs Real 

  In a car simulator, I want my driving to be realistic. I do not want my car to have half the braking distance of the real life car it models. Sure, my lap times would be better if I had twice the grip I would have IRL, but the simulation would suffer. But I would not make my car worse to increase realism if the guys I compete with is trying to make theirs better.

  In a golf simulator, I want my driving to be realistic too...