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Re: Seeing Ready Go Results Before Play

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Sun, Oct 19 2014 11:59 AM

  mkrizan86:

  It doesn't matter. Since the new anti sandbagging rules were implemented 2 years ago, winning any prize in RGs will artificially lower your avg. And there's a certain number of top 3 finishes (different for each tier) you can have before you tier up. I think it's somewhere between 8-10 for TMs. So it doesn't matter if you win 10 RGs with a score of 75 or 55, you'll tier up either way. Of course, this only applies for tiers below legend.

  This, I presume, doesn't mean you need 8-10 top 3 finishes (for example) so surely 6 of them with the 55's would probably see you promoted whereas 6  top 3's with 75's wouldn't. So there would still be room for sandbagging as described. 

  mkrizan86:

  But since Siggi and Soko think we should all play RGs "blind", you could demand the same for pros in real golf. Just keep the afternoon groups in isolation and only tell them what the morning bunch scored when they finish ,-)

  Emmm, they play the first two rounds in the morning and afternoon. How does that compare with knowing what score you need to win a tournament?  Real golf is, I think, set up to keep the players in contention as close as possible (on the course) to each other in the final two rounds.  

  In a real golf tournament If a player in the final group needs a par at the last and it's a risk/reward hole they have an advantage they would be stupid not to take, but it was earned by being in the top two after three rounds.  Say I'm playing UEL 18 or back 9 at Congressional I look at the scores and I need a 4 to win, it would change my second shot. I don't know about the top players, my suspicion is in most cases needing a par wouldn't but in the one I mentioned (for example) it may.

  Semms fair enough to me to say "I wouldn't want it to change as seeing the scores before I play makes it more fun for me"  but to deny SoKoSteve has a point or two (not seeing them could only make sandbagging less likely even if there is very little of it and I personally have looked and thought along the lines of "I can't win and a four will get me top 5", I'm not saying I deliberately didn't get a 3 but I made extra sure I didn't get a 5.) is wrong. 

   

• 1,866 Posts

  Sun, Oct 19 2014 4:17 PM

  DodgyPutter:

  This, I presume, doesn't mean you need 8-10 top 3 finishes (for example) so surely 6 of them with the 55's would probably see you promoted whereas 6  top 3's with 75's wouldn't. So there would still be room for sandbagging as described. 

  Not from what I've seen. It seems to be 8-10 Crystal or Diamond prizes, no matter what the scores. And wins lower one's avg by so much, that even if a person would have 6 wins with 75s, their avg would be in the low 50s. I didn't see anyone (even the "best" ones) being promoted in less than 8 rounds at TM, providing they didn't win MPs against higher tiers.

  As for the rest of your post, you have a point. But once you start playing "blind", you'd have to do it in all the tourneys. There's absolutely no reason why RGs should be treated differently than any other weekly, monthly or a CC tourney. And I don't think anyone wants to play a monthly on the 1st day and then wait 30 days to see how he did compared to others.

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Mon, Oct 20 2014 3:03 AM

  Fair enough on  promotion mkrizan, I've not really been paying attention to it.

  mkrizan86:

  There's absolutely no reason why RGs should be treated differently than any other weekly, monthly or a CC tourney. And I don't think anyone wants to play a monthly on the 1st day and then wait 30 days to see how he did compared to others.

  I immediately think of two reasons why the bold could be untrue and your second sentence gives one of them.  The second is that we directly pay credits to play them.  Seems to me generally that wgt don't have to do anything and these two reasons could be seen as enough to have the difference with the free to play tourneys if they think that's fairer.  Unlimited play tourney's in particular need the leader-board to be seen but the difference between that these and rg's is massive.

  (Unlimeted play rg's wonder why wgt haven't gone there?  Best score you can get in a set time frame, fast play and much more ball use.  Oops, just kidding)

  I'm not that bothered about this, think I'd slightly favour rg's being hidden but if they stay as they are I'll happily play them that way. As I've said, I just though the OP had more of a point than the responses generally made it seem.  Choosing your post to answer was mostly as you had clearly set out points making it easy to reply to.   I do seem to have an unfortunate tendency to argue the toss though, sorry.

  If I could chose the next 10 things wgt "fix"  this certainly wouldn't make the list (probably wouldn't make the top 20) as it does seem to me overall that rg's work quite well.

• 1,866 Posts

  Mon, Oct 20 2014 2:36 PM

  DodgyPutter:

  If I could chose the next 10 things wgt "fix"  this certainly wouldn't make the list (probably wouldn't make the top 20) as it does seem to me overall that rg's work quite well.

  We're in complete agreement on this. As for the rest I slightly favour non hidden scores, but am not bothered if they change it. And you made completely valid points throughout your entire post. Frankly, I think you're one of the more mature and level headed posters in these forums.

  DodgyPutter:

  Unlimeted play rg's wonder why wgt haven't gone there?  Best score you can get in a set time frame, fast play and much more ball use.  Oops, just kidding)

  Shhhhhhhhh, don't let them hear you ;-)

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Tue, Oct 21 2014 2:04 PM

  Thanks for the kind words mkrizan, though there are others that probably wouldn't agree. I find it much easier to discuss something sensibly when the other person is doing the same, so thanks again.

• SweetiePie 4,925 Posts

  Tue, Oct 21 2014 2:58 PM

  I don't gamble, so I have no dog in this hunt. However, after reading it, I say this: something was mentioned about IRL tour player play to compare. It can't be because the weather changes, the greens degrade, and most all never look at the scoreboad.  

  The games here, should be entirely blind until full...it eliminates any further discussion or perceived advantage real or imagined.

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Tue, Oct 21 2014 4:50 PM

  SweetiePie:

  I don't gamble, so I have no dog in this hunt. However, after reading it, I say this: something was mentioned about IRL tour player play to compare. It can't be because the weather changes, the greens degrade, and most all never look at the scoreboad.  

  The games here, should be entirely blind until full...it eliminates any further discussion or perceived advantage real or imagined.

  So Rory come to the 18th down 1...let's just say it's like that looooong Par 4 at PH...say it's just a cross wind, but if he muscles up he know's he can leave himself a putt for birdie...if he had no idea, etc...he'd just ply it for par...find out after signing his card, he was a stroke short.

   

  Another example, he comes to a risk/reward hole...say he's 260 to the front of the green  on his 2nd shot on a par 5, but the green is fronted my water...if he know's he is up by one, why would he risk going for the eagle and potentially dropping a shot?

   

  Yes, pro golfers in the hunt, always watch the leader board...you see/hear it all the time in the post game interviews...

   

  "After seeing what I needed on...."

   

  The above said, I think hiding the leader boards in the below-Legend Tiers is probably a good thing, as well as in CC Tourneys...but in Legend and TL, we all know we need to go low or settle for something else.

   

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Tue, Oct 21 2014 5:16 PM

  No need to change the current RG set up at all IMO, same as RL tourney play no need to try hiding scores (be impossible today anyway IRL).

  Unlimited play RGs?  No way would I be touching that.  WGT 1st rake + their 2nd big hand dip high ball costs makes them hard yards for 99.9% to stay ahead as it is in single play.