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Re: Stroke Average Reduction

• markjay1 9 Posts

  Mon, Mar 13 2017 7:26 AM

  I've been at this game a long time, since 2008, and am pretty used to the WGT nonsense. But after years of playing match play I decided to work to reduce my stroke average. I remember when I used to shoot a -3 or -4 my average would drop .03 or .04, maybe even .05.  All while I was a Legend.

  In the last two days I've shot a -6 and a -5 at Bethpage and my stroke average dropped by .01 each time. That means I have to shoot 1000 pretty good rounds to drop my average from 64 to 63.  That's crazy.  A temporary glitch or is this how it works these days?  Thanks for any replies.

• alosso 21,088 Posts

  Mon, Mar 13 2017 7:49 AM

  Please refer to full scores when talking about the average - +-Par is ambigous, thus makes no sense.

  Your latest scores were 31, 33, 29 and 31 while your average is 64.10 - we don't know if it's saturated or not.

  The score are doubled to 58, 2x62 and 66 - the latter above your average. These scores are a good representation of the scores shown in your history - some 27s are from Bo3 and do not count.

  The most important change over time is the number of scores in the pot. For average calculation, it is in the denominator, and the big numbers (up to 500 for Legends) cause unexpectedly small results.

  Imagine that you might be at 300 rounds now(?) A 62 would count in as about -2/300 = -0.067 - barely visible in the display.

  The 58 might result in -6/300 = -0.02, or less if you have more RRs as a Legend.

  This is how it has been "forever".

• Robert1893 7,729 Posts

  Mon, Mar 13 2017 7:50 AM

  At Legend tier, saturation is at 500 rounds. So, first, you wouldn't have to shoot 1,000 rounds of 29 or 30 to get your average below 63. Indeed, at that rate of scoring, you would tier up to Tour Legend long before 1,000 rounds.
  
  Given that your average is above 64, you still have some scores that are at 32 or above. But there probably aren't that many, depending on what the remainder of your scores are (i.e. how many 30s or below you have). I'm using 9-hole scores because your score history suggests you mainly play 9-hole rounds.
  
  In any case, your 29s and 30s are probably replacing 32s, which is why you see such a small decrease. As those scores of 32 get replaced, you'll soon notice that a 29 may appear to have no effect because the average only displays to two significant digits.
  
  What all of that means is you probably need somewhere around 150 scores at 29 or 30 to reduce your average below 63. It all depends on how many 29s are thrown in there.
  
  Hope that helps!

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Mon, Mar 13 2017 7:52 AM

  markjay1:

  But after years of playing match play I decided to work to reduce my stroke average. I remember when I used to shoot a -3 or -4 my average would drop .03 or .04, maybe even .05.  All while I was a Legend.

  In the last two days I've shot a -6 and a -5 at Bethpage and my stroke average dropped by .01 each time. That means I have to shoot 1000 pretty good rounds to drop my average from 64 to 63.  That's crazy.  A temporary glitch or is this how it works these days?  Thanks for any replies.

  There is no glitch it's how it works.  When looking at averages always use actual scores not numbers under par and double for 9 holes. So your -6 is 58. 

  The key is how close you are to saturation, is it takes 500 rounds to saturate at Legend. Just in case you don't know, when saturated your score replaces the worst score included in your average andbefore that it's a straight average (no of strokes divided by number of rounds).

  Your average now is 64.10:  If you'd played 100 ranked rounds at Legend this would include 6,410 strokes and a 58 would change it to 64.03.  400 rounds (25,640 strokes) and after a 58 it would become 64.08 (25,698/401).  Basically the closer you are to saturation the less a good score (or a bad one) will affect your average.

  From your description it sounds like you are very close to saturation and you'll know when you hit it as your average will drop a fair bit quicker. 

• PaulTon 10,731 Posts

  Mon, Mar 13 2017 8:01 AM

  markjay1:

   A temporary glitch or is this how it works these days?

  No glitch and not these days, it's the way the averages have always worked

  '

  markjay1:

  I remember when I used to shoot a -3 or -4 my average would drop .03 or .04, maybe even .05.  All while I was a Legend.

  Your avg was higher then, since it's dropped you need to score better, simple.

  markjay1:

  my stroke average dropped by .01 each time. That means I have to shoot 1000 pretty good rounds to drop my average from 64 to 63.  

  No, not a thousand, 100 x .01 = 1

  Also, -3 -4 -5 is meaningless. The actual score is what matters as different courses have different total par scores.

  You now have to score better than 32 over 9 holes to have any effect on your average.

• renniw52 5,385 Posts

  Mon, Mar 13 2017 9:22 AM

   Oh Lord I'm dead in the water. Feed this old squirrel to the sharks.

• alosso 21,088 Posts

  Mon, Mar 13 2017 3:51 PM

  renniw52:

  Feed this old squirrel to the sharks.

  Wish denied my friend.

  You and I share the same boat I'm afraid: Stuck at Legend tier for the rest of our lives. All this hustle about tiers and levels and CDPs don't concern us - I am free of it and I hope that you are, too!

  Let's get a wee dram of our favourite drink and watch the scenery and some just-below-par scores on these beautiful courses - we deserve it!

  Cheers, Rich!

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Mon, Mar 13 2017 4:27 PM

  alosso:

  Let's get a wee drum of our favourite drink

  I thought at first you meant dram, maybe not.  A drum o' whisky, ye cannae beat it :-)))

• alosso 21,088 Posts

  Mon, Mar 13 2017 10:47 PM

  It's a dram - i corrected it right away.

• craigswan 32,175 Posts

  Tue, Mar 14 2017 12:46 AM

  Hey guys .

  The next round is on me .