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On putt meter

• Quijotazo 648 Posts

  Wed, Oct 10 2012 6:05 AM

  On its best attempt to reproduce reasonable reality in a virtual game, should WGT consider to give us a wider sweet spot on the meter (while putting only) to be able to perform straight putts more often and less affected by non realistic conditions ?

  Fact of real golf is that, when you perform an aerial shot (with your driver, wood, hybrid, iron or wedge), your good judgement on game conditions, as well as your good execution, define altogether the outcome.  Club facing, swing rhythm, timing and point of contact with the ball are very well represented in WGT with our meter-clicking accuracy while body alignment has been covered by the game with our mouse-aiming only (thank you WGT) .  But when putting, our capacity for reading a green shouldn't be so severely spoiled by a micro-millisecond miss-click of the current extra-narrow and unforgiving sweet spot, specially since on real putting clubs that point of contact is a lot wider, forgiving and more controllable than while performing full-body-swinging aerial shots with face-curved clubs (remember again that in WGT, body alignment has been covered with our mouse aiming and shouldn't be represented on the moment of clicking while putting).

  mplSsEY9UBtz94VDxqed.htp ... Why not ?

  Recouping :  Once we know how to read conditions, aerial shots end up defined by our clicking accuracy, but putting should depend more on our fine tuning with surface inclinations, ground resistance (green speed), and stroke force, and less on clicking right in the middle of a very narrow, unrealistic and unforgiving sweet spot.  Still, we all like to adjust putt direction by clicking before or after the sweet spot, but even that is not possible in real golf, which again, keeps being one of the pursues of WGT right ?

  This is one of the areas that all of us simply learned to manage and accept as part of this great virtual game, and feel okay with the way it is, but still I know that WGT takes our thoughts very seriously.  I thank them for that.

  AJ - Quijotazo

• Quijotazo 648 Posts

  Thu, Oct 11 2012 2:56 PM

  I just finished a game where I could have achieved a better rank if only that 7ft-straight-with-no-break-putt wasn't spoiled by my millisecond miss-click off the meter's sweet spot.

  I insist (nicely), once you are well aligned (mouse pointing) and took all measures (distance, stroke, green speed) your accuracy should be more forgiving on the clicking momentum while putting.  Just think about it.  More realistic that way, wouldn't you say ?

• WGTpizza 1,656 Posts

  Thu, Oct 11 2012 3:28 PM

  Quijotazo:

  I insist (nicely), once you are well aligned (mouse pointing) and took all measures (distance, stroke, green speed) your accuracy should be more forgiving on the clicking momentum while putting.

  I am not a golfer in real life, and I am far from good at this game. I know, however, that putting is described as the most difficult thing in this game, and mastering it separates the figurative Hacks from the Tour Legends.

  I hear your feedback, and I'll be sure to pass it along, but I don't think we will be making putting universally "easier" any time soon. I appreciate your input as always, Quijotazo, and I look forward to hearing more :)

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

• jeffdos924 1,085 Posts

  Thu, Oct 11 2012 3:47 PM

  Quijotazo:

   More realistic that way, wouldn't you say ?

   I see what is you're talking about, Q ... most putters have a fairly large "sweet spot", where it's that are a little off-center of the clubface still roll true to your intended line. Hitting the ding, however, has nothing to do with hitting the sweet spot of a club. The sweet spot would be addressed by that particular clubs forgiveness rating and balance.. Hitting the ding is just whether you hit the ball with a square, closed, or open club face.

    Take your example of putting :

   Hit the ding = square putter at impact, which should start the ball directly on your line.

  Hit it early = closed club face, which will the pull the ball left .. inside of your target.

  Hit it late = open club face, which pushes the ball to the right.. outside of your line.

   And for the record, I absolutely HATE  dead-straight putts from more than 3 feet or so just because they are must-ding putts.

• Quijotazo 648 Posts

  Thu, Oct 11 2012 4:14 PM

  WGTpizza:

  ... I know, however, that putting is described as the most difficult thing in this game, and mastering it separates the figurative Hacks from the Tour Legends ...

  I agree with you, but keep in mind and ask real golf players about this : For any Hack (like me on real golf), if a perfect alignment was given to him (which WGT gives us with mouse-aiming, thank you again), he would be left only with speed reading and stroke execution, and I really think that on any 4 to 7-feet-straight-putt-with-no-breaks, he would hole it at least 7 out of 10 attempts.  But if that player was a Pro (like me on WGT), he would hole it non less than 9 out of 10. Obviously, longer distances require more knowledge for reading greens, and there is where putting gets really difficult as you say, when you didn't make a good chip near the first 7 feet from the flag and have to putt from 8 to 20 or more feet ... that requires mastering !

  WGTpizza:

  ... I don't think we will be making putting universally "easier" ...

  In real golf, if any player performs a good shot that ends 6 feet from the flag, and the ball lands in a spot where the green surface is perfectly even (no breaks), that putt would be indeed universally easier as you say, and would depend only on alignment and speed/stroke execution, not on time of impact, since putting clubs don't have curved faces to cause deviation so severe as in WGT.

  By the way, some breaks, green speeds and hole positions on WGT are very difficult to master already, and without the practice, knowledge and dedication, not even my proposal would make them easier to hole.

  I love the game as it is and I only share my thought enthusiastically.

  Anyway, I really appreciate your fine attention to our inputs.  Thank you.

• Quijotazo 648 Posts

  Thu, Oct 11 2012 4:56 PM

  jeffdos924:

   ... most putters have a fairly large "sweet spot", where it's that are a little off-center of the club-face still roll true to your intended line. Hitting the ding, however, has nothing to do with hitting the sweet spot of a club. The sweet spot would be addressed by that particular clubs forgiveness rating and balance ... Hitting the ding is just whether you hit the ball with a square, closed, or open club face ...

  Take your example of putting :

   Hit the ding = square putter at impact, which should start the ball directly on your line.

  Hit it early = closed club face, which will the pull the ball left .. inside of your target.

  Hit it late = open club face, which pushes the ball to the right.. outside of your line.

  I can agree with the club face position included while putting.  But still, the putting swing is a smaller, softer, more precise and controllable movement, where club face is a decision taken by the player before the swing, not in the middle of it.  It has to do more with the way he holds the club, and again (sorry, not trying to be stubborn) it should be still present in the sweet spot of the meter but with a wider and more forgiving mark that gives more realistic and fair conditions to the player.

  jeffdos924:

  And for the record, I absolutely HATE  dead-straight putts from more than 3 feet or so just because they are must-ding putts.

  My whole point in your own words Jeff  ;)

• Quijotazo 648 Posts

  Thu, Oct 11 2012 5:10 PM

  Personal note :

  I see no use on easing things for us just to indulge our lack of determination, if that was the case when we present a recommendation like this.  But when reality and fairness can be better represented in this virtual version of golf, I think that we might be making a contribution and not a degradation to our very loved WGT game, specially if we share our thoughts and ideas with respect and humility. Thank you all ;)

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Thu, Oct 11 2012 5:29 PM

  Drive for Show, Putt for Dough, or so they say. Putting in the real game is the key to a good round, this game is no different.

  Yes the margin of error is quite low (especially on legend greens) by missing the ding but with so many players shooting in the 50s, I dont think WGT should make this aspect of the game any easier.

  When I used to play a lot (real golf) I would spend time on the practice green before a round - 10 x 3 foot putts followed by 10 x 5-6 foot putts. Only when I had holed them all I would try some longer putts. Madness maybe, but it worked for me - so often most club players are either wristy or inside/outide putting arc. I feel missing the ding is the punishment. for a poor putting swing. Ive have seen many a player miss a 7 foot dead straight putt (including myself). Whilst there is no practice greens here you could play a few practice holes and when on the green, aim for spot on the green or the hole to ensure you are in the ding zone (and no I dont do this).

  At the end of the day, a low score is achievable if you hit the ding, and the evidence is that a lot of people do.

   

• Choppography 2,166 Posts

  Thu, Oct 11 2012 5:43 PM

  I only read the first post....the rest is a LOT.  

  Putting IS the hardest thing to master in WGT.  Guess what?  Putting is also the hardest part of real golf to master.  Of all pros, past and present, I would say that Ben Crenshaw is the only player I've witnessed that had putting mastered.  Others have had good years, but Ben had a great career....by the numbers.

  Now, that millisecond of mis-timed putting is CRUCIAL to keeping the putting element both difficult to master and the hardest part of golf (WGT or otherwise).  That slight miss of the ding represents not only your finger missing the timing, but also the clubface meeting the ball.  WGT can't replicate, yet, the clubface being 1/2 a degree open or closed at impact.  But, I can assure you that you aren't making that 7 foot, flat putt without your face being immeasurably square at impact.  And, you can't hit a spike mark on the way to the hole, either........another feather in the cap of precision randomness.  Combine these with a little break, being off speed, or developing a hitch in your backswing due to nerves, and you see how quickly a putt can break down.

  I can tell you that Ben Crenshaw used to practice his putting in a unique way.  He practiced putting 20 footers over a dime.  A dime!  And, he missed more often than he hit the dime obviously.  But, transpose your thinking just a tad down to WGT's level.  Do you really want to make that 20 foot putt solely because you pulled a putter back (on a putter pal giving you the distance) and hit a ding?  I don't.

  In my opinion, that makes WGT just like every other video golf game I've ever played.....especially GoldenTee.  Just line it up and rip it at the hole.  After awhile, break ceases to exist in your putts.  Nerves also go away because you know you can just blast it into the back of the cup.  The skill of putting becomes the EASIEST part of the game instead of the hardest.

  I love you, Q, but I have to disagree with you here.  The randomness of precision is what keeps 15 and 20 footers close to a crapshoot.....just like real golf.  It's realistic enough we can hit things inside 10 feet with regularity, but the longer you get, the more of crapshoot it becomes.  I don't ever want to just rear back and drop a 40 footer because I only had to hit the ding.  That would be the beginning of the end for me.

• Quijotazo 648 Posts

  Thu, Oct 11 2012 6:13 PM

  alanti:

  At the end of the day, a low score is achievable if you hit the ding, and the evidence is that a lot of people do.

  I read all your thread thoroughly .  I have to agree with you and I'm sorry for using only this small dissection of your great input.  Again, I must say that this is the whole point of this post :  Successful putting is all about pure art of knowledge, practice, and reading-surface-resistance-and-inclinations skills, not dinging.

  On any given 15+ feet putt, on a tournament green, 7 inches downhill and a pronounced left break, any Hack without the knowledge of these conditions would end with his ball probably about 10 or more feet passed the cup, on the left side, even if he had the gift of hitting perfect dings all the time, and writing on the chat : "Wow, did you see that thing ? ... It had eyes !" ... lol.

  Yet again, when a Legend player hits a straight 7ft putt, with no break, even grounds, tournament speed, applying 5.8ft stroke and his ball ends 2 inches left from the hole due to a micro-miss of the ding, that's when the whole thing would be worth of revision.

  Sorry for my insistence.  Again I must say that I love the game as it is now.

  I rest my case with this threat.  Respect to all and thank you again !