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How do you work with or around VEM aka The Beast?

• LittleAttila 30 Posts

  Wed, Nov 28 2012 3:30 PM

  This post is not a complaint, but rather a request for tips or suggestions on how to work with or around VEM aka The Beast.

  We all know it exists, especially over bunkers, since you can often see the screen stutter as your ball crosses over many of them, as well as when a ball should lightly drop into the rough and stay put, only to be suddenly power-sucked into a bunker nearby. In regards to the screen stutter, as the ball crosses the bunker path, I'm guessing the beast is making its calculations on whether or not it can eat your ball for a snack :) 

  On many of the bunkers, I find that if I don't want to play around them, and I want to go direct to the green as the crow flies, I need to add at least a club length to make it over, which of course, we don't need to worry about in real life. In WGT, not only do we have to take into account distance, lie, wind, and club-length, etc., but it appears that we must also account for whether or not we're hitting over traps or water. I look at it as if the air changes over those traps, slowing things down, perhaps like the effect of removing dimples from the golf ball, and that I need more club to get through them. The downside for me is that the extra club length sometimes drops me way too far (waves fist at the grinning beast).

  So, my question is: how does everyone deal with this?  In other words, what's your approach to the approach that has to go over a hungry bunker?

  Cheers!

• Spammage 694 Posts

  Wed, Nov 28 2012 3:51 PM

  Well,  to clear one misconception that you have - the screen stuttering when the ball is over the bunker has nothing to do with calculations.  The calculations are already made before your avatar hits the ball on your screen.  Need proof?  Load up a premium ball with a few hits left and aim that sucker so far OB or over water that you know it will be "lost".  Then hit the shot but as soon as you do tell the game to end or restart or whatever.  That ball will still be gone even though it never made it to OB or water on your screen.

• Lizard69 2,006 Posts

  Thu, Nov 29 2012 12:36 AM

  I personally think WGT have done some sort of fix regarding the "weeds" at Kiawah as what would definitely have been a lost ball 2 weeks ago, the result was what you see in the replay below..

  Or did I just get lucky? I won't ask why a 5i from 30/40 rough only landed 147 or so yds but that's another story altogether, at least the ball wasn't "lost" as it would have been previously and it saved a new ball..

  http://www.wgt.com/gameclient.aspx?view=showReplay&JSON=%257B%2522GUID%2522%253A%2522c685e180-11fd-4841-9b31-a11800867c49%2522%252C%2522Brand%2522%253A%2522%2522%257D

  From one view it appears to land on the grass OVER the weeds, I cant clearly see it hit the woody bit :-)

• LittleAttila 30 Posts

  Thu, Nov 29 2012 10:06 AM

  Before we get off track here, I'm not looking for more proof of VEM, but just some suggestions on how people approach going over (or around) these bunkers where this effect is obvious?

  (Lizard69 .. what happened in that video is bizarre to say the least .. but ya, at least you didn't lose a ball. I lost two in a row in the same spot but to the left a couple of weeks ago.)

• gr8flbob 592 Posts

  Sat, Dec 1 2012 2:17 AM

  How I deal with 'VEM':

  1. accept that it exists - it's a software way to duplicate the variability in the real game.

  2. for any given shot (ignoring wind, elevation, landing area terrain, etc.) if you hit it 10 or 20 times, you will get a 'shot pattern' of results, in an oval shape ... shorter or longer than expected and deviating left or right from your aim point.

  3. when setting up for your shot, set the range and aim such that a result ANYWHERE in that 'VEM oval' will leave you in the fairway (for drives and layups) or, for approaches, on a preferred area of the green relative to the pin. 

  What is a 'preferred area of the green'? To me it's reasonably close to the pin, with the least possible amount of break, and a level or uphill putt.

  If you keep the ball in the short grass on the way to the green, the VEM is minimized and your clubs' rated distances and impact of spin become more predictable.

• mnshiner 1,382 Posts

  Sat, Dec 1 2012 3:07 AM

  LittleAttila:

  This post is not a complaint, but rather a request for tips or suggestions on how to work with or around VEM aka The Beast.

  We all know it exists, especially over bunkers, since you can often see the screen stutter as your ball crosses over many of them, as well as when a ball should lightly drop into the rough and stay put, only to be suddenly power-sucked into a bunker nearby. In regards to the screen stutter, as the ball crosses the bunker path, I'm guessing the beast is making its calculations on whether or not it can eat your ball for a snack :) 

  On many of the bunkers, I find that if I don't want to play around them, and I want to go direct to the green as the crow flies, I need to add at least a club length to make it over, which of course, we don't need to worry about in real life. In WGT, not only do we have to take into account distance, lie, wind, and club-length, etc., but it appears that we must also account for whether or not we're hitting over traps or water. I look at it as if the air changes over those traps, slowing things down, perhaps like the effect of removing dimples from the golf ball, and that I need more club to get through them. The downside for me is that the extra club length sometimes drops me way too far (waves fist at the grinning beast).

  So, my question is: how does everyone deal with this?  In other words, what's your approach to the approach that has to go over a hungry bunker?

  Cheers!

  One of the bunkers that attract your ball is #4 @ Congressional and the reason why is because the elevation starts right before the green causing your ball to die and find the trap. Therefore you need to go a club down.

   

• jeffdos924 1,085 Posts

  Sat, Dec 1 2012 7:47 AM

  mnshiner:

  This post is not a complaint, but rather a request for tips or suggestions on how to work with or around VEM aka The Beast.

   

   VEM and "the Beast" are 2 different animals.

   VEM is more of a tightening of game paramaters based on your skill. Basically, the better you are playing, the better you HAVE to play.

  The Beast is just a random deviation that NEEDED to be built into the game. We already have too few variables to deal with for any particular shot. That occasional WTF shot keeps this from being just a numbers game..and actually a little more realistic. All of us that play for real have hit those shots that we KNOW we nutted, but the result is totally different than we think it should have been.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Dec 1 2012 8:06 AM

  LittleAttila:

  this post is not a complaint, but rather a request for tips or suggestions on how to work with or around VEM aka The Beast.

  I think you might be laboring under a misconception here. VEM doesn't pick parts of courses and make them more difficult or deceptive. It doesn't control your meter (although some think it does) and it doesn't monkey with your clubs. It changes the level of difficulty for you as you improve.

  Bunkers are a course's defense. Notice where they usually are-in the vicinity of landing areas off the tee and around the greens. They're put in places where you have to take them into consideration when planning your shot.

  A greenside bunker might be placed where it takes the run up shot away and forces you to either go over it or play around it. Going over it requires some finesse and some good equipment as well as experience in knowing what you can and can't get away with.

  If you're playing the same way every time to deal with a bunker, and this sounds like what you might be doing, change something. Club up and choke or switch to a different shot type, stuff like that. There's usually an answer but you're only going to find it by trying what you know and then trying what you don't know.  :-)

• Woodoworkery 3,498 Posts

  Sat, Dec 1 2012 10:21 AM

  I personally think there is no way of predicting when it is going to happen,it is like a slot machine it just happens, so you get your WTF out and move on.

  I have had a shot many many times where I moved the marker to the edge of the fringe with the flag being ( i guess 8-10 yds away ) and the wind blowing 8-10 mph at about 10:00  missed the ding by the width of the line (late) and the ball went 8-10 yards on the opposite side of the flag.Is that VEM, or did the wind lie

  Go figure

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Dec 1 2012 1:29 PM

  Woodoworkery:

  I personally think there is no way of predicting when it is going to happen,it is like a slot machine it just happens, so you get your WTF out and move on.

  Dang, G, took you long enough. Been trying to hammer that into you forever. LOL.  ;-)