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At last! An Uneven Lies tourney... but...

• Corwyn 2,410 Posts

  Sat, Dec 29 2012 6:01 AM

  PRIESTESS:

  LOL they can be anything ,,Had a practice knock last night and if the wind set is high> OMG<<  Thats par golf lol

  I'm not sure WGT could come up with any settings that would stop you scoring under par, Priestess!

  I watched your youtube video. Outstanding stuff!. To paraphrase a certain Bobby Jones, "You are playing a game with which I am not familiar!"

  Thank you so much for videoing the round. It's so great to have something others can reference to see how much adjustment you're making for the uneven lies, although it seemed as if your course management was such that you were rarely in any kind of trouble.

  My feeling about Olympic is that although the slopes are severe, they are predictable, which means that you can plan your way around, and in most cases, if you're positioned right on the fairway, the slope can help guide your shot on the right line into the green. I've played Olympic primarily with Starters from the front tees, and with low winds for our tourney, and the best I could do was a -3. I hate to think what I would score under the conditions you're all likely to face this weekend!

  Good luck everyone!

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Sat, Dec 29 2012 7:57 AM

  Just had a look at the leaderboard. 3 59's and 4 60's at the front end. Fantastic play TL's. Also noticed some players have played it again and scored better.( nice job Siciliano MB) The only disappointment for me is the low amount of entrants. I counted about 265 TL's and only 50 scores recorded so far. I was hoping to see a little better but who knows. When it's opened up next week for the other tiers the turnout may not be much better.

  Good luck to all the TL's for the second round.. ;-)

• genorb 1,255 Posts

  Sat, Dec 29 2012 8:43 AM

  sebicu:

  The uneven crap is very inconsistent so i wont try again. i consider this a big bust for WGT. if they want to implement it they really need to make some HUGE adjustments. very unrealistic. on Beth with a good putter you can make a decent score but on olympic will be a totaly different story. On the british courses all will be about luck with the ball bouncing all over the place. DONT LIKE IT AT ALL

  I agree that this is not the best thing they introduced. I didn't play much uneven lies up to now and after 4-5 restart I posted a 60 (with a par on a par 5). If I had time to pratice, I could certainly post a 56-57. BUT this is because we are playing on Bethpage with rather flat fairways (except on few holes like hole 2) and very flat greens (except on few holes). So even at 20-25ft from the hole, you still have a decent chance to birdie if you know how to putt.

  On more difficult courses with large break on the fairway (and single play), that will be a nightmare. Of course with some practice I am sure you can figure out how to play uneven lies pretty well. But the side deviations are quite unrealistic. You need to move your aim quite far from the hole even when the break is rather small. This makes the game look even more like a video game. Only those (the gamers) who will spend time to "chart" the deviations will manage to post good scores because you cannot play uneven lies with (common sense) feeling because the deviations are too unrealistic.

  As mentioned elsewhere, this is not good for newbies either. Imagine starting to play with uneven lies... I think you would quit quite soon. Of course, you could introduce uneven lies only beyond some tier but then you punish those who get promoted. This would encourage sandbagging even more.

  Of course, you could introduce shot shaping to counter uneven lies. But then, you will need to adujst (to take into account) a lot of parameters before each shots. Not sure it will be quite fun. We should not forget that this is just a game. For true realism there is real life golf...

  Regards

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sat, Dec 29 2012 9:28 AM

  genorb:

  I didn't play much uneven lies up to now and after 4-5 restart I posted a 60

  ULs in single play tournaments would make the leaderboard right. Unlimited attempts at the same course with the same conditions just begs hammering away until you get it right. That's what has to stop for this to make any sense.

• unclenewy 334 Posts

  Sat, Dec 29 2012 10:04 AM

  YankeeJim:

  ULs in single play tournaments would make the leaderboard right. Unlimited attempts at the same course with the same conditions just begs hammering away until you get it right. That's what has to stop for this to make any sense.

  Totally agree.....Unlimited attempts is not a true test of ability but a test of persistence. Although anyone who is a TL obviously has ability, but being able to rub out a bad start and start again proves nothing.

  Uneven lies will be a great addition once they get it right, but at the moment it's awful.

  I also think 2 versions of this game could be the way forward....like an 'arcade' and 'simulation' mode. Where the game as it is now would be 'arcade', because even though WGT claim it's the most realistic golf game on the internet, let's face it, it's not. 

  I mean c'mon. 3 irons stopping dead (or even spinning back on lower elevated greens) from over 200yrd (and 4,5 and 6 irons for that matter), CG wedges having crazy backspin as soon as it hits the green and playing a bad shot on purpose (missing ding) to create a good shot.....Is just not realistic.

  And 'simulation' would include uneven lies, along with real shot shaping and realistic backspin.

  So I think uneven lies could be the start of the 'simulation' creation, with all the top tournaments eventually being played in this mode only........AND NO RESTARTS!

• genorb 1,255 Posts

  Sat, Dec 29 2012 10:34 AM

  YankeeJim:

  genorb:

  I didn't play much uneven lies up to now and after 4-5 restart I posted a 60

  ULs in single play tournaments would make the leaderboard right. 

  What you mean by right?

  Even without uneven lies, single play tournament are not right with high winds. You can have a difference of several strokes depending on the wind set you get playing the same quality.

  The outcome of a single tournament is never right. It's the sum of the results of many tournaments which gives a correct picture...

  Anyway, I predict an endless number of thread about inconsistancy of this game once uneven lies will be the standard if it's implemented as it is now.

  And if some players believe that the hierarchy in the leaderboards will be significantly changed by this new feature, they are wrong...

  Regards

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Sat, Dec 29 2012 11:23 AM

  genorb:

  YankeeJim:

  genorb:

  I didn't play much uneven lies up to now and after 4-5 restart I posted a 60

  ULs in single play tournaments would make the leaderboard right. 

  What you mean by right?

  Even without uneven lies, single play tournament are not right with high winds. You can have a difference of several strokes depending on the wind set you get playing the same quality.

  The outcome of a single tournament is never right. It's the sum of the results of many tournaments which gives a correct picture...

  Anyway, I predict an endless number of thread about inconsistancy of this game once uneven lies will be the standard if it's implemented as it is now.

  And if some players believe that the hierarchy in the leaderboards will be significantly changed by this new feature, they are wrong...

  Regards

  I believe the hierarchy, as you put it will remain pretty much the same. The best should be able to adapt much faster with the base of knowledge already at hand.The scores posted prove it in spades. I've been playing UL a lot from day one and would be getting killed in this thing by players who are saying they rarely bother with it. . I'm surprised by some of the comments regarding the game play. Most surprised there's never been any criticism of the way the game normally plays. Fairways on many courses are extremely uneven yet we simply hit our drives and can play to the greens from anywhere as if it's all flat. We hit into the face of bunkers but the shot out is simply gauging the lie % instead of figuring the amount of side and up or down slope.. That's the part that's perplexing me. Why nobody ever questioned that? It's as unrealistic as any criticism I've read on UL IMO. Of course it makes the game way easier to score so we have averages that are incredibly low and we like it that way.

  If WGT tones UL down then tones it down again until we're all happy, it's going to have no real bite and be a waste of effort on their part. If they add in the ability to hit fade and draws to counter the lies, it could be interesting but they'll be no need for that in regular game play. The scoring is already unbelievable now.

  I look at moving the aimer as in moving the club face. What it's aimed at makes no difference as long as I've adjusted the club face for the slope. Yes it seems funny at first aiming at OB, lakes, trees or bunkers but it's only the direction of the club face for impact that we're really adjusting.

• Woodoworkery 3,498 Posts

  Sat, Dec 29 2012 11:24 AM

  I don't know if it's possible ,but WGT needs to set up single play tournaments to where everyone gets the exact same conditions. That in my opinion is the only way to get a true leader board.How can you possibly say this guy is #1 when he may  have played a game with tail wind, and another player had to fight his way through with heavy head wind. That is what I can't understand.

• genorb 1,255 Posts

  Sat, Dec 29 2012 12:23 PM

  CerinoDevoti:

  Most surprised there's never been any criticism of the way the game normally plays. Fairways on many courses are extremely uneven yet we simply hit our drives and can play to the greens from anywhere as if it's all flat. We hit into the face of bunkers but the shot out is simply gauging the lie % instead of figuring the amount of side and up or down slope.. That's the part that's perplexing me. Why nobody ever questioned that? It's as unrealistic as any criticism I've read on UL IMO. 

  That's a good point. I believe that not much are questionning this because actually the game is already hard enough. There are only quite few players scoring low regularly. For the vast majority, many of them never post here, they struggle (but you can still have fun playing with others etc.).

  The game should not be designed for just few players scoring low. But that's just my opinion. Believe it or not, I am writing this thinking to the majority of players. I am not thinking to myself, I can quickly adapt so I do not bother (I just posted a 58 in that uneven lies tournament with a stupid 5ft putt missed). The game should not be spoiled by becoming too hard otherwise many will stop and many will not even start (or stop the day they started :) ). But may be I am wrong...

  CerinoDevoti:

  Of course it makes the game way easier to score so we have averages that are incredibly low and we like it that way.

  I don't think average is the point. What is important is how you compare yourself to others in tournaments. So even or uneven lies, having 55 or 65 as average is not important for the competitions. But as it is now, uneven lies makes the game look a bit odd and unrealistic. It makes the game unnecessary difficult which is bad for the vast majority of players.

  Regards