Forums

Match Play/Averages

• EndaBunkers 39 Posts

  Tue, Feb 19 2013 8:25 PM

  I wish to make an enquiry. Can someone please tell me how much should be deducted from a players average for beating a player in the tier above them in a match play game. That is, if a tour master player beats a legend player, what effect can they expect that to have on their average? Just a rough answer will do. Thank you very much

• 9,041 Posts

  Tue, Feb 19 2013 9:23 PM

  EndaBunkers:

  hat is, if a tour master player beats a legend player, what effect can they expect that to have on their average? Just a rough answer will do.

  From what ppl have reported on here it can range from 0.8 to 2.4..why ?

• EndaBunkers 39 Posts

  Wed, Feb 20 2013 4:40 AM

   

  Well I'm  fairly miffed to be honest. I was playing a cc match play tournament and it was my good fortune to win against a higher ranked player. Yet I then find my average has been reduced by -1.8. Last week, from a similar position, I had done the same and it was only a 0.5 reduction I incurred, which I was totally fine with. But, as you can see there is a massive difference between 0.5 and 1.8, so I was just wondering what other people have experienced, and also why there is such a huge inconsistancy.

  The only difference I can find in my circumstances between the two events, is that I have only just finished my 50 required games for the tier 2 days before the 2nd game in question. I am actually disgusted to be honest, the more I think about it,  and I feel put off playing on now.  My games had just bottomed out, and I was looking forward to the fight towards the big tier. Now I wont have that same opportunity everybody else has had after playng for so many months; I get the leg up programme when others have had to play longer and harder than me - I feel like I have been given silver plater treatment, and I feel robbed to be honest.

  My average was at 65.18, I beat a player on the tier above me, and suddenly its  63.38. Im worried now that if I play another such game and am successful, there will be no more games left to play, and I will have been denied any sort of challenge. Im thinkin my avg could have gone from 65 to 61 in under 24 hours. I have spoken to some of my fellow cc members about this, and they maintain that such a massive shift is impossible, but it has happened to me and I feel disgusted to be honest, and I am fit to quit wgt entirely. Its wrong, and this game has been ruined for honest players by this. I am not sure what I want to do now......

   

• 9,041 Posts

  Wed, Feb 20 2013 9:30 PM

  EndaBunkers:

  Yet I then find my average has been reduced by -1.8. Last week, from a similar position, I had done the same and it was only a 0.5 reduction I incurred,

  Maybe the reductions get greater the more times you beat higher tiers....?

  Don't play Legends + , or don't complain...you can't have it both ways, expecting to beat higher tiers (twice) with no consequences.

  gl  Andy

• Slammer23 420 Posts

  Wed, Feb 20 2013 10:22 PM

  You won a match. Your average (which is not really an average) went down. You may, or may not, have moved up a tier. How has any of this harmed you????
  
  You talk of wanting to give up WGT over this. Because the number beside your name is lower now? Did WGT take credits from you and I'm just not understanding what yo're saying?

• EndaBunkers 39 Posts

  Thu, Feb 21 2013 1:11 PM

   

  Hows it goin guys, listen, first off theres no need for anybody to take a smart tone here, I have not, so why should anyone else? Secondly, Andy, please read what I wrote again, I won 2 games in this fashion since my last tier up, and 2 games only, please dont ignore the number of games I also played and lost. Are you saying that 2 games is alot? How am I or you or anybody supposed to be aware of the consequences when we are all clearly ignorant of them. There is a massive, massive, massive difference between 0.5 and 1.8. If I now play a third game and your theory holds up, then perhaps the reduction would indeed be 2.5 the next time, thus meaning a player could effectively skip the tour master tier if they so wanted.

  I wish to make Legend just as much as the next man, and would never held back in doing so, never have, never will. My point is that making it to that level is a goal every honest player shares, and as I said to someone else, it has a kind of aura about it that is utterly destroyed by employing such an easy method of bypassing the sweat involved; sweat that others that have gone before have had to endure before getting there. Wheres the challenge gone? Note that I have only just played my 50 required games at the tier, and I think maybe 4 more as of now.

  Also, Slammer, credits are irrelevent, what do you mean, I dont care about credits, I simply wish to enjoy the game as a challenge, did you not read my post? How much clearer do you want me to be? Note that the number beside your name is indicative of a mile stone, indeed it has a bearing, which as you rightly assert is now being eroded to the point of meaninglessness.

   

  Please dont mistake me either, Im in favour of what is goin on here, I think there should be a value attached to beating a higher ranked player, I support it. My point is that there are gigantic inconsistancies involved, almost 4X in this case, and who knows how much more. 

  Whats effectively happened here is someone has tried to fix a leaky tap with a slegehammer, and this to the dismay of those who were not selfish in drinking the water from it. My talk of quitting wgt, which was done in the moment, was a result of this dismay; I doubt very much that I'm the only one.

  Cheers anyway guys, thanks for the time you took to reply, my regards......

   

• svntwoo 43 Posts

  Thu, Feb 21 2013 1:20 PM

  I went from Tour Master to Legend in roughly a week, I was only playing challenge matches.  So it definitely has effects, I beat 9 Legends in the last week and it was enough to bump me up.

   

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Thu, Feb 21 2013 1:29 PM

  You have a 63 point something average now. It's going to take a heck of a lot of work and great scores to lower it to 61 and make Legend. It's further off than you may think even if you beat Legends in Match Play. BTW, a win against a Legend in Match play is equal to a 61 stroke play score IIRC. Your average in TM Tier is based on 50 rounds so a 61 in the mix lowered it by the amount you saw. Once you become Legend that average moves REAL SLOW. :)

  Good luck and happy playing.

• EndaBunkers 39 Posts

  Thu, Feb 21 2013 2:48 PM

  Thats not what I am saying. I am saying that 1.8 x 2 = 3.6, and 63 - 3.6 = Legend. You are right that it will take a lot of work to get to get there if you avoid match play games. It is therefore wrong that I could go from 65 to 61.4 in the space of 24 hours, when as you so rightly put it, it should take a lot of work.

  Thanks for your reply

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Thu, Feb 21 2013 3:33 PM

  Basically this was introduced to combat sandbagging. No system is perfect but I believe WGT's theory is, if you can beat a higher tier several times, then thats where you will end up.

  The entire "average" system is not an average but based on your best performances in a certain Tier. Obviously a win against a higher Tier is classed as one of your better rounds. Sadly there are a number of Legends tiered up this way and are often cannon fodder for TM's so the cycle continues - perhaps it is WGT trying to get all players to upgrade equipment to compete at the new tees!

  Really the only way to avoid being tiered up in this manner is avoid playing higher tiers in MP, and do it the old fashioned way and when you are better prepared for the tips.