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Challenge Payout Fees

• ACE4321 940 Posts

  Thu, Jun 6 2013 4:15 AM

  Question to WGT::

  Reading your rules WGT takes 10% example 100 credits earns you 90 for a match challenge win.

  I just played a game for:
  850 credits

  I won 765 with a 85 challenge fee
  Total won 680
  According to your rules the win should have been 850 minus the fee of 85 total win 765

  Can you please explain why i was charged 170 credits which equals 20%

   

  TY
  Jo  

  Response from WGT::

    We receive many questions regarding the fee for Match Play games and it seems that our FAQ is not doing a sufficient job in explaining the procedure. We definitely will have to reconsider a different explanation.

  First, players are not charged any credits until after the game is completed and only the loser is charged credits even though your transaction history shows a certain amount is deducted. The fees for the winning player are taken out of the losing player's credits.

  For example, if players bet 100 credits, the winner will win 90, but 10 credits out of that 90 are used for the winner's fee and 10 credits out of that 100 are used for the loser's fee. Therefore, the winner receives 80 credits. Twenty percent is not being removed since all fees are taken out of the loser's credits.

  We hope that this explains the procedure for deducting Match Play credits. If not, feel free to reply to this message so we can explain this further.

   

  Regards, 

  Response::

  ((For example, if players bet 100 credits, the winner will win 90, but 10 credits out of that 90 are used for the winner's fee and 10 credits out of that 100 are used for the loser's fee. Therefore, the winner receives 80 credits.))

  ((THAT'S 20% from the winner))

  I have to respectfully disagree with your explanation. If a challenge game is for 100 credits with a 10% service charge the winner should win 90 credits. The loser should pay 100 plus 10 credits equaling  110. The winner of your game is being charged 20% no matter how you look at this. 

    People bet 444 to win 400 credits when in fact they really win 356 credits, the loser pays the total of 400 plus 44 which is the cost of the game.
  

  So if you win its 356, lose and its 444 throw in the ball charge and you have to win 65% of your challenges to break even.
  

  You should clarify the explanation or charge the loser a fee.  

• CerinoDevoti 3,232 Posts

  Fri, Jun 7 2013 5:59 AM

  If you know anything about gambling, the house gets a cut from both sides or a Vigorish. The "vig" for WGT is 10%.

  Look up the word Vigorish on Google or Wiki.

• courteneyfish 15,796 Posts

  Fri, Jun 7 2013 6:10 AM

  Each player pays 10% of their stake to play. So if you play a 100 credit game then after the fee is taken from both players (20 credits) then the pot only contains 180.

• alosso 21,088 Posts

  Fri, Jun 7 2013 6:26 AM

  ACE4321:

  Reading your rules WGT takes 10% example 100 credits earns you 90 for a match challenge win.

  That's exactly true!

  When a player puts 100 crs on the table, WGT takes 10%, leaving him a 90 crs bet. Same for the opponent.

  The winner gets 180 crs, his own 90 crs wager plus the win of 90 crs from the opponent.

• DanTh3Man 1 Posts

  Fri, Jun 7 2013 8:01 AM

  Actually Vig is only charged on losing bets.

• ACE4321 940 Posts

  Sat, Jun 8 2013 6:45 AM

   

  I took your advice and look up the Vig. In this example it works just as i mentioned it should work. 10% take from the house from both sides with vig factored into the bet.:)

  this is not the way we get charged

  A fair odds bet: Two people want to bet on opposing sides of an event with even odds. They are going to make the bet between each other without using the services of a bookmaker. Each person is willing to risk $100 to win $100. After each person pays his $100, there is a total of $200 in the pot. The person who loses receives nothing and the winner receives the full $200.

   

  By contrast, when using a sportsbook with the odds set at −110 vs. −110 (10 to 11, 1.9090..) with vigorish factored in, each person would have to risk or lay $110 to win $100 (the sportsbook collects $220 "in the pot"). The extra $10 per person is, in effect, a bookmaker's commission for taking the action. This $10 is not in play and cannot be doubled by the winning bettor; it can only be lost. A losing bettor simply loses his $110. A winning bettor wins back his original $110, plus his $100 winnings, for a total of $210. From the $220 collected, the sportsbook keeps the remaining $10 after paying out the winner.

• 2,840 Posts

  Sat, Jun 8 2013 3:19 PM

  courteneyfish:

  Each player pays 10% of their stake to play. So if you play a 100 credit game then after the fee is taken from both players (20 credits) then the pot only contains 180.

  This explanation is the correct and easiest way of looking at.  You are not losing any credits, if we took the 10% out before the game you would still only be getting 180 credits.  It really doesn't matter when it is taken out as long as you understand 10% of the entire bets will be taken.

   

  - WGTdbloshoe

• jsweetcr 1,209 Posts

  Sat, Jun 8 2013 4:16 PM

  Any way you slice it its still BS in my opinion. Doesn't matter how you word it the winner is still losing money either out of his own 100 or out of the winning he or she is receiving.

  IMO it is way to excessive, especially on match play. As the definition said above, if two people want to bet on an event they can bet each other and would not need a bookie to do so, like match play.  Most of the match play bets in golf that I have ever heard about are two people deciding to play a match play and at the first tee or before deciding what the wager is and playing the match and who ever wins gets the pot.  Haven't heard of many pairings going to the pro shop or caddy house and asking someone to manage the bet for them and taking 10%

  I feel the same about groups of skins, mostly people would just bet amongst themselves.

  I kind of understand it with RGs or if you had  a large matchplay tourney or something, then yes you would need some one to manage the bets and money. Maybe 10% is a normal vig in the real world but i still think it is excessive here, considering that WGT has already made money off of us when we bought the credits.  Then they rake us over the coals for these premium balls and now to boot if I wanna have a match play challenge with someone I have to pay another 10%, and its not like they are actually doing anything for it. Especially seeing as how WGT doesn't run any kind of specials for buying credits. The idea of bulk buying and frequent customer is completely non existent in the WGT world.  how about letting us get more credits for our $1 when we are buying $50 or $100 or more, like a sliding scale or players that come back to the well over and over again get discounts or extra credits. I find it interesting that WGT uses examples and situations in the real world to mimic when it suits them but other situations that have as much validity get no attention.

  Back to the issue at hand, sorry for my rant, I think where the confusion lies with the OP is that you see 10% get taken from both sides, cuz that is how it shows when the match is setup.  Your bet 100, 10 to house, net to pot 90. So you add 10% and 10% and assume it is 20% take on the whole pot but, really on 100 and 100 the net is 180 so 20 was removed and really only 10% of the whole pot was taken.

  Still think it is a bit much, however, WGT is having a raging success with it, so maybe they should take up running books on more stuff. We could log in and bet on golf events and both kinds of football, maybe even all three kinds of football, don't wanna leave my Aussie brothers out, crap 4 kinds, almost forgot about Canada, sure i am missing more.. For us Americans one of those footballs, we know as soccer, but its still football.

  :)

   

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Sat, Jun 8 2013 4:44 PM

  According to the FAQ on the right, under Match Play Challenge:

  "The minimum fee taken by WGT is 10 credits per player. The maximum fee taken is 175 credits per player."

  But if you play a match for 4,000 credits, wtg takes 400 credits from each player.

  So wgt, which is it...a max of 175 or a flat 10% no matter the size of the bet?

• Doublemochaman 2,009 Posts

  Sat, Jun 8 2013 4:57 PM

  I liken it to horse racing.  When you go to the track and place a bet it goes into the "pool"... the sum total of all that is bet on a particular race.  Generally, 15% is deducted from that pool for the track and for the government.  After that 15% is deducted the remaining money is split up depending on which horses won, placed or showed, based on their odds at post time.

  WGT takes their fair share, their part of the profits, to keep this game running, off the top. The rest is paid back to the participants.  Just like horse racing.  Personally I have no problem with WGT deducting 10% to run the game.  They are a business.  They have the right to make money.  I don't believe it is exorbitant.