Forums

Medium vs High Loft Irons

• FBudd 208 Posts

  Wed, Jun 12 2013 11:49 PM

  Hi all

  After recently finding out about VEM having a bigger variable for lower precision irons i am kicking myself for buying the  2010 Rapture V2 Iron Set (Graphite) (L48+) set a few weeks ago. At the time i thought having high forgiveness would be a good thing but now that i am hitting the ding more often than not i see it really isnt good for me. 

  So i plan on getting the i15 Iron Set (Steel) (L69+) next, they have 4 dots of precision, 3 spin and 15yrd extra distance. 

  The thing im not sure about is how i will handle the change in trajectory or if it will be a good or bad thing. So i understand my shots will arc higher, what i would like to know is how does this effect my calculations with wind, elevation/de-elevation etc, also will my punch shots arc higher as well? 

  Is high over-all or is it all person preference? 

  Any advice is greatly appreciated.

   

   

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 12:12 AM

  FBudd:

  After recently finding out about VEM having a bigger variable for lower precision irons i am kicking myself for buying the  2010 Rapture V2 Iron Set (Graphite) (L48+) set a few weeks ago.

   

  Check out these cats stats...they used the same clubs...

   

  http://www.wgt.com/members/iconian/default.aspx

  another big Rapture fan...

  http://www.wgt.com/members/priestess/default.aspx

   

  Sorry Icon for posting a members profile ;)

   

  Sure there are better clubs, but may require a more expensive ball to keep the meter slower.

   

  If you learn the greens...you'll know where to roll the ball too with your Raptures.

   

  PS...can you cite the link where "lower level clubs are affected by VEM" (my words, but mean the same thing....) 

   

   

• courteneyfish 15,796 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 12:19 AM

  The Raptures are great clubs. I went from them to the G20's, they were great too. It's these R11 clubs that need work.

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 12:21 AM

  Pros of High Trajectory clubs with more spin...stop better on the Green...

   

  Con...afffected by wind much more than med Trajectory clubs.

   

  Cons...miss the dning with a lot of BS...gas up the cart and find your ball;)...naw, not that bad...but full BS missed dings are now 30 foot putts not 12 footers.

   

  Suggest ya stick with the Raptures and learn them...then decide later:)

• alosso 21,073 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 12:34 AM

  High trajectory IS better than anything lower, you'll see that on each long shot into a green. And yes, all parameters of the shots will be affected, because they are individual to each club / ball combination. You'll have to dial into it, to your advantage.

  Level 69 at 135,000 XPs.

  I'm a fan of the G20 clubs. While the first set is level 59 and may be inferior to the i15s, the better set is at level 83, 255,000 XPs. Sounds a lot of wood to chuck but you may have plenty of time while becoming Tour Master and working towards Legend.

  My guess is that you'd want another, better set than the i15 once you hit the back tees.

  Have fun!

• FBudd 208 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 1:57 AM

  MBaggese:

  FBudd:

  After recently finding out about VEM having a bigger variable for lower precision irons i am kicking myself for buying the  2010 Rapture V2 Iron Set (Graphite) (L48+) set a few weeks ago.

   

  Check out these cats stats...they used the same clubs...

   

  http://www.wgt.com/members/iconian/default.aspx

  another big Rapture fan...

  http://www.wgt.com/members/priestess/default.aspx

   

  Sorry Icon for posting a members profile ;)

   

  Sure there are better clubs, but may require a more expensive ball to keep the meter slower.

   

  If you learn the greens...you'll know where to roll the ball too with your Raptures.

   

  PS...can you cite the link where "lower level clubs are affected by VEM" (my words, but mean the same thing....) 

   

   

  Yeah i seem it here http://www.wgt.com/forums/t/176807.aspx?PageIndex=13

   

  WGTniv:

  Wow, you guys have made this so amazingly more complicated than it is.  Let me see what I can do to simplify this...

  The game is pretty simple.  Precision controls your accuracy.  Imagine it's like a circle that surrounds the flagstick when you aim at it.  The size of that circle is related to the precision rating.  The higher the rating the smaller the circle.  Your ball can land anywhere in the circle on a dinged shot (left or right, long or short).  It will ALWAYS land in the circle on a ding shot, though sometimes it may land in the center of the circle and sometimes it may land on the very outer edge or anywhere in between those two points.  When it lands on the outer edge this is what you guys have come to know as "the beast".  Was the shot pre-programmed? Does it know you're standing on the 17th hole at Kiawah?  No, it's just unfortunate timing.  The result you see is the logical spread dictated by the precision rating of the club over 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 shots taken on the site.  No matter how big or small the sample it's amazingly consistent because it is after all only a simple mathematical formula.  The shot data is spread out amongst all users, so there will be times when you run into a lot of "edge cases" (aka deviations, aka outside edge of the precision circle) and times where you seemingly can't miss the center (even when you mishit).  This is the ebb and flow of the game and it's always been there.  In the short term you will have "bad" days and "good" days.  In the long term (providing they are using the same clubs) any one player will see the same amount of "edge cases" or "deviations" that the rest of the players do.

  And that's all there is to it!  The other theories can be put to bed.  There's no behind the scenes tweaking, no changing club attributes based on skill and no hidden mechanism that knows when you're on a water hole.  It's just a formula that runs exactly the same for every single shot and it has no idea (nor does it care) where you are on the course.  It doesn't matter if it's the first tee shot on #1 or the winning 10-foot putt in the USGA Virtual Championship.  The formula runs the exact same calculation every single time and you're always at risk for an "edge case".  How far away an "edge case" can take you depends solely on your precision rating for that club.  The higher the precision rating (and conversely the more lofted the iron) the less "edge cases" will take you away from where you aimed. 

  Course releases have ZERO affect on your clubs. When a course is released it's just assets, hole maps, minimaps, HD photos and stuff that has absolutely no affect on your clubs.  Us adding a JPG picture file (or 100,000 of them) does not change the way your approach shot on Kiawah #2 interacts with the green.  Each course has it's own settings and each course comes with it's own set of "surfaces".   If you go into Oakmont expecting your clubs to interact the same way they do on Kiawah then you've already made your first mistake.  Every course has it's own nuances right down to how the ball is affected by elevation and break and you'll have to figure that out with practice.  While adjusting to those nuances you may forget the nuances you learned on the older courses and get stuck in between your adjustments.  That happens to me too.  A new course comes out and suddenly I can't make a putt on Kiawah because I've spent so much time learning how to play the new breaks on Oakmont.  As a result I end up over-playing breaks on everything for a short time while I adjust.

  Hope that clears some of this confusion up.  You fellas certainly come up with some wild ideas, but it's no where near as complicated or convoluted as some of you seem to think it is.  Remember, keep it simple because it really is simple.

   

  So basically i ding the ball alot, a good example is a recent no wind RG on cabo, i dinged 14/18 apprach shots without moving the marker and every one of them landed 10-12 ft either side of the flag. i now know its because of my irons low precision rating.

   

  EDIT: priestest and iconian both use lvl90 R11's?

• FBudd 208 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 2:01 AM

  Yeah i was thinking high would be better over-all. especially since use cheap balls, thanks for the info. I plan on getting the i15's then not upgrading until im in the 90's, my driver is good enough and combined with these irons i think ill still be ok at legend, when i make it, in a month or two.

• alosso 21,073 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 2:28 AM

  FBudd:

  my driver is good enough and combined with these irons i think ill still be ok at legend, when i make it

  Right now you have a great chance to prove your point (which I doubt BTW) by playing the Qualifier at Merion - from back tees, tournament conditions.

  How many fairways and greens will you hit?

  Have fun!

• FBudd 208 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 3:17 AM

  alosso:

  FBudd:

  my driver is good enough and combined with these irons i think ill still be ok at legend, when i make it

  Right now you have a great chance to prove your point (which I doubt BTW) by playing the Qualifier at Merion - from back tees, tournament conditions.

  How many fairways and greens will you hit?

  Have fun!

   

  Well as i said, i dont have the irons i need yet, so i cant prove my point to you just yet but considering my driving accuracy and GIR % are both higher than yours, probably a better chance than you.

• bhoese 679 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 5:20 AM

  Stick with the Raptures and learn how to make those 12-15 footers.