Take andrews second hole I just done, right to left wind 18 mph no forward or back wind, no elevation change distance to flag was 103 I hit 10 lower to make sure I didnt roll off and I still went into the rough, now im no expert but all that above should suggest that the pace and angle of the shot was enough to hold the green.....please enlighten me if im looking at this wrong....greens seem very wierd in terms of pace.