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Have flop shots been changed lately

• courteneyfish 15,796 Posts

  Mon, Mar 3 2014 9:56 PM

  Strangely enough the course does make a difference. What works from bunkers on Bethpage may not work on Kiawah and definitely not on Oakmont..

  Your example was asking a lot if you were below the hole.

• Johniedino 786 Posts

  Tue, Mar 4 2014 2:14 AM

  The only thing I have noticed is from the fairway...With full b/s it doesn't stop like it use to...using same ball. The 250cr callos.

  J

   

• SplashLewis 369 Posts

  Tue, Mar 4 2014 7:50 AM

  BadMuzza:

  Just had another opportunity to test.  Had a 30/40% lie in sand on a 16yd hole.   Used my CG64 wedge to flop (19yd range) and used 100% power.  That shot should have gotten fairly close to the hole but it actually didn't make it out of the bunker, just moving a couple of yards...

  4th hole at Kaiwah if that makes any difference, although it shouldn't...

  Update:  Decided to do some practice and take some bunker shots over and over again.  I came to the conclusion that flops only work in 20% or less lie.   I was never able to successfully launch a flop from 30/40% lie.

  Maybe my memory is not serving me well but I am still pretty sure that I was able to flop from 30/40 not too long ago.  I couldn't even find a bunker on Kaiwah or Merion that had a 20% lie.  I'll try some more experiments when I find one.

   

  I was going to say that flopping out of bunker with 40% doesnt work. I know flopping from grass 40% lie does.  based on my calculation,  your 19yd wedge is not enough to flop 16yds from a 40% lie.  You'd have to hit it at 125%

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Tue, Mar 4 2014 8:06 AM

  BadMuzza:

  I came to the conclusion that flops only work in 20% or less lie.   I was never able to successfully launch a flop from 30/40% lie.

  Courteney's point is a good one-don't play all the traps the same. For instance Oakmont-you won't find a trap lie less than 30-40 there and flopping is dicey. BPB however gives you a lot more 15-20 and even the 30-40 will work there IF you're close enough to the side. Kia's traps are really dependent on the lie.

  Generally 30-40 is going to find you a distance away from the side of the bunker and that's where you get in trouble-the flop doesn't get up enough. Pitches and punches work great there.  :-)

• gr8flbob 592 Posts

  Tue, Mar 4 2014 12:03 PM

  Chinajohn:

  I'm not using them as much as I used to, after some good advice from YJ and Jimbob I've mainly switched to using Pitches.

  I flopped out of rough yesterday, about 35yds aimed with full BS and as usual it ran on for miles, (I REALLY must stop playing that shot, if the definition of stupidity is making the same mistake twice and expecting a different result, I'm WAY past stupid on that one), so no, all is the same for me.

  Flopping out of rough with full BS effectively 'scrubs off' any spin on the ball, CJ - a cushion of grass prevents club grooves impart BS to the ball. If the landing zone is down-slope away, gravity is converted to roll and away your ball goes.

  (Hat's off to Dougie who mentioned Gravity.)

   

   

• TracyMax 2,361 Posts

  Wed, Mar 5 2014 9:33 AM

  I use the flop often, I can't see any difference in how the shot reacts

• MichaelStroke 2,066 Posts

  Wed, Mar 5 2014 9:55 AM

  95% of my 8-30 yard shots are flops.  I don't like using a pitcher flop though...just way too much roll.  I adjust my sand flops by about 2 yards.  From low 30s and beyond, I prefer just a normal lob shot with full B/S.

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Wed, Mar 5 2014 11:42 AM

  No disrespect Michael, but take heed of the advice from Jim and Bob - 2 very wise and knowledgeable players whom have earned respect..

  It really is horses for courses and the shots that work better at each course - learn this and you will see an improvement in your scores.

  I used to only use flop 90% of the time, now it is a full variety of ALL shots including punching from under 20 yards.

• gr8flbob 592 Posts

  Wed, Mar 5 2014 11:57 AM

  BadMuzza:

  Update:  Decided to do some practice and take some bunker shots over and over again.  I came to the conclusion that flops only work in 20% or less lie.   I was never able to successfully launch a flop from 30/40% lie.

  Maybe my memory is not serving me well but I am still pretty sure that I was able to flop from 30/40 not too long ago.  I couldn't even find a bunker on Kaiwah or Merion that had a 20% lie.  I'll try some more experiments when I find one.

  http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=7788fb73-3d70-46ca-9192-a2e50144fbf9

  I set up for the above flop from KI 30/40 sand by setting spin dot so it was ~'half-submerged in sand. 10% choked down on CG 29 Flop so ~26 yd nominal. Severe downhill after landing so BIG roll out. Carry was only about 8 or 10 yds so I just made it to fringe.

  Bottom line, you can flop from KI 30/40, but the carry distance  is considerably shorter (by 10 - 15 yds) and roll out is longer than from grass rough, because any backspin is scrubbed off by sand contact. My experience is that KI 30/40 is tougher than typical CCC/OLY/BPB sand of same depth.

   

• MichaelStroke 2,066 Posts

  Wed, Mar 5 2014 12:19 PM

  alanti:

  No disrespect Michael, but take heed of the advice from Jim and Bob - 2 very wise and knowledgeable players whom have earned respect..

  It really is horses for courses and the shots that work better at each course - learn this and you will see an improvement in your scores.

  I used to only use flop 90% of the time, now it is a full variety of ALL shots including punching from under 20 yards.

  I also pitch, but I'm just not as good with it yet.  I'll admit that the only time I punch is to get out of the deep cabbage and haven't really figured out what its use is from the fairway.  And there just aren't that many situations that I chip.  As mentioned before, the only times to me that chipping really does any good is when you're within 6 yards of the pin, but still on the fairway (and it's flat).