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What is WGT doing to take measures against cheaters

• alanti 10,564 Posts

  Mon, Sep 22 2014 4:33 PM

  mkg335:

  Somewhere the corpse of Franz Kafka is shaking its rotting head, or skull as the case may be.

  The Trial spring to mind? (Der Process)

  Utterly disgraceful thread now, should be deleted IMHO.

• PaulTon 10,731 Posts

  Mon, Sep 22 2014 5:29 PM

  

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Mon, Sep 22 2014 6:00 PM

  alanti:

  mkg335:

  Somewhere the corpse of Franz Kafka is shaking its rotting head, or skull as the case may be.

  The Trial spring to mind? (Der Process)

  Utterly disgraceful thread now, should be deleted IMHO.

  Indeed it does, m8, as does the image posted by Paul above.

   

• JDShoemaker 209 Posts

  Mon, Sep 22 2014 6:07 PM

  My idea is, dont get into $ plays.  I play this game for fun.  BUT ur are 100% correct that NO ONE is going to be any where near 90% dings.  So  I just amble along playing, enjoying the game and to hell with th players who have to do what ever it takes to win.

   

  JDS

• keidan 311 Posts

  Mon, Sep 22 2014 7:03 PM

  getting back to square one... I still think that some kind of implementation of ding % analysis/reporting or similar would be a start.  Even with players utilizing "off-ding" methods there is likely a statistical distribution (range) that can be attributed to "human" capabilities.  Any software or "machine" assist is likely to flagged or flushed out as a stat anomaly when looked at in terms of 1 or 2 or 3 or whatever std deviations from a normal distribution of, say, a million players.  -Keith

• mkg335 5,491 Posts

  Mon, Sep 22 2014 8:14 PM

  keidan:

  getting back to square one... I still think that some kind of implementation of ding % analysis/reporting or similar would be a start.  Even with players utilizing "off-ding" methods there is likely a statistical distribution (range) that can be attributed to "human" capabilities.  Any software or "machine" assist is likely to flagged or flushed out as a stat anomaly when looked at in terms of 1 or 2 or 3 or whatever std deviations from a normal distribution of, say, a million players.  -Keith

  Keith, I don't think that's the answer.  Why would you penalize someone for having exceptional hand-eye coordination?  Ding really isn't always king anyway, and many factors have to be considered when taking a shot, such as wind speed and direction, elevation, contour of the green, etc.

  The other problem with that approach is the very real possibility of false positives and players being unjustly accused.

  Unless players are willing to let wgt access their comps remotely and inspect them, which for many would constitute an invasion of privacy, I don't see much that can be done in the present environment.

  Maybe an alternate platform to Flash is the answer, I don't know...but that would require a complete retooling of the game by wgt, I think.

   

• keidan 311 Posts

  Mon, Sep 22 2014 9:40 PM

  mkg335:

  Keith, I don't think that's the answer.  Why would you penalize someone for having exceptional hand-eye coordination?  Ding really isn't always king anyway, and many factors have to be considered when taking a shot, such as wind speed and direction, elevation, contour of the green, etc.

  The other problem with that approach is the very real possibility of false positives and players being unjustly accused.

  Unless players are willing to let wgt access their comps remotely and inspect them, which for many would constitute an invasion of privacy, I don't see much that can be done in the present environment.

  Maybe an alternate platform to Flash is the answer, I don't know...but that would require a complete retooling of the game by wgt, I think.

  A totally fair point.  But I still think extra information can't hurt.  Just like members can browse through a players stats and infer from time stamps and progress etc etc that a pattern is highly unlikely (e.g. such as join date as hack and shooting 60's and winning tourneys within a week) and elect to point this out to WGT staff... the additional statistic of a player having a "spread" to their ding pattern suddenly tighten overnight and match the distribution around dings of the top 5 players can be reported as, at least, suspicious.  

  Players with exceptional hand-eye coordination that are genuine talent will still exhibit a natural distribution within their sphere of expertise (and likely a natural, smooth rise in their performance over time).  A careful evaluation of ding % history (for example) could help flush out obvious gaps or breaks to a players performance.  Again, as you point out, one must take into consideration a number of factors and be conservative about pointing fingers and maintain benefit of doubt.  For example, a player acquiring a new piece of equipment might exhibit a slight jump in their performance or ding pattern due to perhaps a purely imagined improvement in their situation.  

  I grant you that this kind of stuff is difficult to sort out but,  again, more information can't hurt the honest players and I think could help (over time) flag more of the blatant (and maybe not so blatant) cheaters.  -Keith

• AgentBrown123 907 Posts

  Mon, Sep 22 2014 9:56 PM

  Farfoo

  Trust me, I can easily live with it. I was only making a point

  19 under on Merion, even with luck. Probably even with an auto dinger you don't get that score.

  Kudo's to Ujjbnjk!

• Fraenkel 2,252 Posts

  Tue, Sep 23 2014 12:09 AM

  Despite everything that has been written in this thread I still (or try) "understand" the meaning that John wanted to give to this thread, the problem is that I observe it from my point of view and this is certainly different than his. 

  What seems clear, as written, is that there is an AVG gap definitely plentiful and that leads to always, or almost, always the same players at the top of the tournaments and always with the same constancy. What amazes me is the fact that the percentage of winning is higher than the withdraw (or middle win as gold or silver) and it is also evident by observing the boards trophies. 

  It would be hypocritical and childish say that we never had some doubt about some impressive scores. This could be offset by creating a new tier and is determined by the AVG score or both RR and AVG, we were asked to have our say, but so far nothing seems expected. 

  I didn't mean that is the solution of what John ask (it will never happen mate) but it could be an alternative to the problem, what is the right in not being able to compete fairly, regardless of the fact that there are honest people or less, or VEM (don't forget this engine too) addict by the way.

  Actually I feel myself like an honest, mediocre player and I'm pretty sure I won't be able to compete against certain top players even when I'll reach 10,000 rounds, even untill I will not change one of these two adjectives. The fact is that, as in this thread, if one of these two adjectives changes mean that there is a trick behind, necessarily.

• TDSLIMIT 409 Posts

  Tue, Sep 23 2014 2:03 AM

  mkg335:

  Keith, I don't think that's the answer.  Why would you penalize someone for having exceptional hand-eye coordination?

   

  LMAO  Hand and eye coordination.     Maybe you should be playing professional sports.    Low 55 AVG.  Players   come running in defense of cheaters.   Things that make you say Hmmmmm.