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I'm not mad then!!!.

Wed, Jul 22 2015 9:31 AM (65 replies)
  • keidan
    311 Posts
    Thu, Oct 30 2014 11:24 AM

    JFidanza:

    My diagram elevation numbers are simply theoretical, and it shows what the aim pointer would indicate if it was over those distances and elevations. It looks normal, right? If it's incorrect, tell me what's wrong.

    Your diagrams are fine and your choice of theoretical numbers are quite reasonable.  There is nothing wrong with your point of view that something may be wrong with the game and how it renders slope based on the OP's experience.  That could very well be a problem.

    I am not challenging your theory (law of physics don't seem to apply).  I am just challenging the fact that you imply it is the only explanation possible of what might be going on (based on information provided), and why I responded to two of your original statements (which come across to me as final), with "not necessarily.."

     

    JFidanza:

     If you are suggesting that the hole is as you have shown in your drawing, lets find out what you would say the aim pointers elevation number is in the red question mark. '?'

    If the hole is as you are stating is might be then the number, logically, has to be higher than the '-9' shown in fig. C, correct? If not, what is the number, and why and how can it be that number?

    Ok, my view is that there may not be such a terrible physics bug in the software, only a limited sampling to render height differences from one putt to the next, which you actually state quite clearly yourself at the end of your post.

    At the red question mark the number could be -8 in, for example.  And so yes it is higher than the elevation at the hole, but only by 1 inch compared to elevation changes before the hole and beyond C on other side.  My only point is that, due to limited sampling when the OP was about to perform the first putt, this short, gentler slope might be missed due to the quality of the software color rendering of the slope.  So I think it's possible that there are instances of short opposite slope (between putter and hole and beyond the hole) that are masked by a single color of severe descending slope, particularly for longer putts.  These intances of short opposite slope could jump out at you when looking at the shorter second putt just beyond the hole as slope colors, distances and directions are reset.

     

    JFidanza:

    Now, these drawing are nice, but show me a video or example IN THE GAME itself where this is indicated as such. If you are correct then you should be able to record this instance and provide proof. 

    I don't have proof for my theory.  Then again I don't see proof for yours either, that the software is showing a wrong slope direction and the physics are bad.  We are both relying on limited information.  A limited rendering (i.e. sampling measurement) by the software does not mean that its physics model is faulty.

    -Keith 

     

  • willy53
    42 Posts
    Thu, Oct 30 2014 12:17 PM

    Dear JFidanza,

                           Seeing all the replies to my original moan abut conflicting physics, I am totally gobsmacked by all these fascinating facts and diagrams of this query, there must be some very clever technically minded people out there. At this point I would just like to say that never having been on a golf coarse in my life, and I'm a O.A.P. now, I don't no what it's like to play real golf anyway!!, but as for all this talk about taking a snapshot/video of problem, which I don't know how to do, all I can say is the first hole on back 9 of Congressional, the tee shot over the lake, I you overshoot which I always seem to do, scared of water you know?, the next shot will be down hlll, and the little marker dots are going down past the hole, or they are when I look at them, so if you overshoot the putt, the next shot should be uphill, shouldn't it?, but it ain't, well not on my laptop it ain't.

                             Please don't ball me out if I've got this wrong, I'm only trying to have what I think is a realistic game, but then again what do I know what's realistic or not.

  • JFidanza
    1,676 Posts
    Thu, Oct 30 2014 1:03 PM

    keidan:

     distances and directions are reset.

    I agree this something that might be happening.

     

    keidan:

    I don't have proof for my theory.  Then again I don't see proof for yours either.

     

    I just putting it out there..putting? ha

    It's just to figure out why, as we all are basically agreeing the fact that it's interesting that the 1st putt shows down down, then the putt hit from the opposite direction is, antithetically, showing a slope of down down, instead of the expected up up up.

    I'm just seeing a lot of members comment on the same topic, and even if it seems weird I know we all have the basic attitude of 'hey, it's a game, lets just drop the putt and move on'.  I'm now occupied with my approaches, which are now sub-par and I have no qualms about the complex mapping of the greens.

    But, yeah, I see what you're saying. I've recently seen a putt react in a manner that concurs with what you have shown here.

     

  • ScottHope
    10,449 Posts
    Thu, Oct 30 2014 3:23 PM

    I did have a quick go on the green on the 10th at Congressional Willy and what you say is perfectly true. If you go past the hole by a couple of feet towards the water from behind the pin, then the putt back shows a decline of ▼0 inches.

    I think that most players who have been here a while will agree that the contour grids and aim marker values are not 100% accurate, and any putt with an elevation of 0 inches, either up or down, should be given an extra foot or 3 of power to ensure it doesn't suffer the never up, never in situation.

  • fmagnets
    3,640 Posts
    Thu, Oct 30 2014 10:45 PM

    All the diagrams are very nice, but that is not actually what is happening. Most of the holes in WGT are mapped as 1 inch underground for some reason. You will often see -1 inch when a short distance away on a flat green. You will often see 0 inches for a putt back that just whizzed downhill past the hole on a continuous slope.

    The best examples are: the 6th green at Cabo (dead flat yet putts around the hole will show -1 inches); and the 5th green at Oly (huge right to left slope as you look at the green from the fairway, yet putt from above the hole to below it, and the putt back up will show 0 inches elevation for up to 5 feet below the hole).

    This is why all good putting formulas will have a +1 at the end of them after allowing for distance with green speed factor and the shown elevation.

    It is possible that some holes are mapped correctly, some holes may be 2 inches out - I've never bothered to check in depth though this may be a useful exercise. Allowing for 1 inch every hole serves me OK. 

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Wed, Nov 12 2014 10:11 AM

    willy53:
    Yes it is a nice illistration, but I'm talking about putts that you've checked out past the hole that are still going down before you take putt?

    I found an actual green on Cabo that is as ScottHope described in his illustration.  Sometimes you need to check further past the hole.  Its from Hole #1 on Cabo.  Downhill both ways!   Click on the image for a larger view.

  • JFidanza
    1,676 Posts
    Wed, Nov 12 2014 12:04 PM

    andyson:

    willy53:
    Yes it is a nice illistration, but I'm talking about putts that you've checked out past the hole that are still going down before you take putt?

    I found an actual green on Cabo   Its from Hole #1 on Cabo.  

    I think Cabo 7? might have a similar valley, but I haven't played cabo that often.

    But what the OP is experiencing is not what you have shown! It's a different situation. Plus, show a moving video recording of the dots on the slope grid 'up and down', it would be nice to see if they are programmed to go in opposite directions.

    It's all very basic, even a 2 year old can understand it.

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Wed, Nov 12 2014 2:52 PM

    JFidanza:
    I think but I haven't that often

    Editing quotes can be fun!

  • rqueen
    57 Posts
    Thu, Nov 13 2014 12:03 PM

    Willy, you forgot this.  When you hit a ball with forward spin, you it just right and it will back up.  Also, backspin on a ball and when it hits it goes forward amazingly on both of these it will do one or the other depending which one will make the ball stop farther away from where you want it to go.  I hit a ball with my 60 degree wedge with backspin on it.  The ball hit about a yard or so just past the flagstick, then it rolled forward about 12 yards to take it further from the hole.  Of course, that is the way most of the hits do.  Another thing, be very careful what you post on here as well.  If they do not like what you say, that will affect your game as well.  Since my last couple of posts on some of the other posts, suddenly not one single shot I have hit has been anywhere near the realm of anybody's reality.

  • WildBillbakerhil
    80 Posts
    Mon, Nov 24 2014 12:11 PM

    I just read it and putt it. Why all the physics. Clutters up the mind.

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