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World Stroke Play Rankings 23 June 09

rated by 0 users
Sun, Aug 2 2009 10:58 PM (36 replies)
  • TallAcePaul
    1,455 Posts
    Tue, Jun 23 2009 8:55 AM

    For a while now it has been slightly annoying me that rankings are based on peoples averages. As we can see from the current Top 10 ranking table these can become out of date very fast as the game moves on. No offence WGT I know you've got plenty of other things on the go.

    I think that a ranking system based on free tournament play would be a much better judge of whos hot and not.

    To this end I have come up with another system.

    Weekly Stroke Play Tourneys- 20 points are distributed between the top 50 players. This is done in line with the percentage distribution WGT use for allowcating money in tourneys.

    Monthly International Opens - 40 points distributed as above.

    US Open(Any Free Major) - 80 points distributed as above.

    The table below shows the Top 30 players based on the last 10 weeks weekly's, April and Mays International Opens and the US Open. I will keep this updated until the end of the year and will try and tap WGT up for a prize for the winner.

    Any suggestions will be ignored LOL

    Position

    Player Name

    Points

    1

    NASAgolfer

    23.10

    2

    nivlac

    15.82

    3

    tibbets

    10.88

    4

    gitthe

    10.78

    5

    ncviz

    9.48

    6

    AvatarLee

    8.17

    7

    SmoothSwinger

    7.96

    8

    Hightower3

    7.15

    9

    Jarid

    5.49

    10

    DRWR

    4.14

    11

    SWBAKER

    4.08

    12

    mwb5010 Total

    4.00

    13

    mrboo Total

    3.98

    14

    Aggie

    3.81

    15

    Keith35 Total

    3.72

    16

    claremoreblue

    3.62

    17

    RookSteak

    3.51

    18

    TallAcePaul

    3.47

    19

    seniorbruno

    3.41

    20

    JALAII

    3.02

    21

    uwsublime

    2.84

    22

    finsec168

    2.73

    23

    spinman

    2.70

    23

    RyanSelwyn

    2.70

    23

    CaptainCouples

    2.70

    26

    Bacs

    2.63

    27

    jeffdos924

    2.62

    28

    ucrazybs2

    2.35

    29

    wags66

    2.34

    29

    BeachGolf

    2.34



  • tibbets
    1,043 Posts
    Tue, Jun 23 2009 9:13 AM

    Umm, a little too arbitrary with the point system.

    International Opens are irrelevant to many of us, since they offer no prize whatsoever.  I think I've played a total of 1 of them, which I won.  Your weighting system is a bit askew as a result.  You have to weight based on tournaments entered vs. result.  Penalizing someone for not entering a tournament is not a sound way to judge rank.  You rank them based on the performance of the tournaments they DID enter.  If you did that, your above rankings would change drastically....and until you do that,  the above list will be just as irrelevant as the current WGT top 10 list LOL.

    And oh yes, there are a whole host of monthly tournaments that you are completely ignoring.  If we go by your system, you'll ignore the results of this months June 18 hole Kiawah Open, The June Masters open,  the People vs.The Pros open, the June Front Nine Open, and the June Back Nine Open.  Outside of the US Open happening, those are the biggest tournaments of the month!

    Provisions also have to be made for the results of any score-based Closest to the Hole tournaments, which are also pretty lucrative and big.

  • seveking
    983 Posts
    Tue, Jun 23 2009 12:15 PM

    I don't think it should be based on tournaments entered vs. results because you'll end up with the same problem as always: people not posting scores.

    We probably will never have a completely accurate way of creating a ranking, but this one is much more real than the one on the Home Page, so I would say keep it going!

  • plim
    1,388 Posts
    Tue, Jun 23 2009 1:18 PM

    what we need is each tier converted to proper golf handicaps.

    as we know a handicap only moves when you play in comps. the consistant players get cut by .1 .2 .3 .4 for every shot they are under par and go up by similar amounts for players over par.

    my average can go up and down by quite a number depending if i have a good day or not. i think over the last 24 hours its moved by about 4. if that had been under a handicap system i would have moved by maybe by point 6 or so.

    would i play club golf if it was always off scratch no never the better golfers would win all the time, lets get a handicap system in place so everyone has the chance to win something. of course have scratch comps like bpb but lets have some handicap comps and see some new names at the top of the leader board.

    would people spend money on upgrades and comps if they think they have an even chance of winning of course they would.

  • tibbets
    1,043 Posts
    Tue, Jun 23 2009 1:37 PM

    Handicapping doesn't have a place in this game because for the most part each tier competes against it's own members.  We're all 'handicapped' by tier already.

    The problem with tournaments has never been people not posting scores.  That problem was for people not posting rounds when the top 10 rankings actually meant something.  Now that they don't, people are posting alot more scores.  You have to look at the way that professional golf handles rankings.  Just because Vijay Singh plays 3 times as many tournaments as Tiger Woods doesn't give him a higher ranking.  Tiger finishes high up on the list of every tournament he enters, and his winning percentage is extremely good, that's why he has the ranking he does. Vijay plays well too, but his average finish per tournament is lower, hence a lower rank. They are judging a player based on performance per tournament entered, and with the exception of a minimum tournament rule for ranking, there is no advantage to playing more tournaments.  By the system proposed above, Tiger would be way down on the list because he didn't enter some tournaments that other people did and wouldn't have accumulated enough 'points'.

    Performance per tournament is the accepted way to rank a player.  Handicapping is for the local golf clubs, and that's why we have different tiers to represent the varying levels of skill.  Once you reach the Master level, its assumed you're a scratch golfer and you generally only compete against people at that same level.

  • anotherhook
    17 Posts
    Tue, Jun 23 2009 4:01 PM

    Number of tournaments played DOES have a direct correlation to world ranking points in the real world. Tiger may not play as many tournaments, but always does exceptionally well, so even when he doesn't play for a year he is still No1.

    Excerpt from world ranking system.

    The World Ranking Points for each player are accumulated over a two year “rolling” period with the points awarded for each event maintained for a 13-week period to place additional emphasis on recent performances – ranking points will then be reduced in equal decrements for the remaining 91 weeks of the two year Ranking period.  Each player is then ranked according to his average points per tournament, which is determined by dividing his total number of points by the tournaments he has played over that two-year period. There is a minimum divisor of 40 tournaments over the two year ranking period.

    The winners of the Masters Tournament, the US Open Championship, the Open Championship and the PGA Championship are awarded 100 points (60 points for 2nd place, 40 for 3rd, 30 for 4th down to 1.50 points for a player completing the final round), and the winner of the Players Championship is awarded 80 points (points are awarded down to 1.20 points for 60th place and ties).  The BMW PGA Championship has a minimum 64 points for the winner (points to 56th place).  Minimum points levels for the winners of official Tour events have been set at 6 points for the Canadian Tour (points to 6th place), 12 points for the European Challenge Tour (points to 14th place), 14 points for the Asian, Sunshine and Nationwide Tours (points to 17th place), 16 points for Australasian and Japanese Tours (points to 19th place) and 24 points for European and the United States Tours (points to 27th place).  In addition the Open Championships of Australia, Japan and South Africa have a minimum of 32 points for the winner (points to 37th place) and the Flagship events on the Asian and Nationwide Tours have a minimum of 20 points for the winner (points to 22nd place). In the cases of co-sanctioned Tour events, the minimum points levels are determined using the “average” of the minimum Tour ranking points from each Tour (rounded up to nearest whole number).

    Points are reduced by 25% for tournaments curtailed to 36 holes because of inclement weather or other reasons.

     

    THe current system seems a bit pointless because it includes every round you play, rather than just tournament results. If the ranking system utilised a similar system to what is proposed I think that would work well. I think a higher weighting for single try tournaments is a good idea, because they really do change the level of nerves when you only get one crack.

    I agree that handicapping is pointless - the tier system should sort that out anyway. Really that is the handicap system, regardless of how many people may see it as a problem as better players establish themselves when they join. Nothing will solve that problem for the intermediate player, no matter how hard we try.

    Hope this makes sense - I really like the idea of a ranking system that means something, as this is a really great game which deserves the top players getting some recognition

     

  • Ace3000
    31 Posts
    Tue, Jun 23 2009 4:26 PM

    World Golf Tour should be based like real golf a PGA Tour for top players A "Nationwide Tour"

    "world golf rankings" majors  and more golf courses and i believe that that can slowly develop

  • plim
    1,388 Posts
    Wed, Jun 24 2009 12:29 PM

    rubbish so  someone who is master tier and has a avarage of 70 is the same as someone who who is a in the master tier who has a average of 60.. get real tibbets how can that be a level playing field.

    wgt need to get real. will i keep spending money if my average is 70 and i'm competing against people whose average is around 60 no way.

    do WGT really want the same people winning every week no way.

    come on wgt get a handicap system in place let everyone have a chance of winning.

    if i don't post scores at my club i lose my handicap.  on wgt i can save my average by not playing.

    its not difficul to work out a handicap system for each tier.

    is tibbets scared of being beat by someone with a worse average. under the present system he has no worr

    i've tryed it myself and you would  be surprised how close it would make each tier.

    i play real golf to a 9 handicap i get beat by people with a higher handicap. so

    later this year i will be running a comp where i will convert master averages to a handicap system. its not rocket science.

    lets let all wgt players have the chance of glory . 

     

     

    on master and pro tiers it makes for tighter results.

    WGT is as real as a golf game can get. so lets get a handicap system in place even just for the better tiers  

      

  • Snaike
    3,678 Posts
    Wed, Jun 24 2009 1:18 PM

    I'm sorry plim, but I have to disagree.  How would a handicap system worked for the US Open?  It seems that Tibbets (64.74) shot a 71 and NASAGolfer (69.77) a 65..  I guess with your handicap, Tibbets could lose by 20 instead of 5?

    No handicapping is needed here in the virtual world, imho.

  • tibbets
    1,043 Posts
    Wed, Jun 24 2009 2:30 PM

    Bottom Line:  Professional golfers all have scratch handicaps, that's why they do away with that system when ranking the best golfers in the world.  Handicapping is for local club play for golfers who aren't at the top level.  It's novelty golf for amateurs who compete in small beans tournaments.

    The Master tier represents the best golfers in this game.  We don't play novelty golf at this level, and the prizes here aren't small beans.

    David Duval, Ricky Barnes, and Lucas Glover all had rankings far higher than Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson, but you didn't see the USGA handicapping them at the US Open because of that.  They all started on a level playing field, and the winner was the one who shot the best score.  That's real golf.

    Plim, if you want to beat me or anyone else, shoot the best score..  It's really that simple.  We play the same courses from the same tees with the same clubs available to all of us.

    If you can't shoot a better score under those level playing field conditions, you don't deserve to win.  End of story.

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