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Putter troubles

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Mon, Feb 15 2016 6:31 AM (22 replies)
  • Knockitoff
    79 Posts
    Mon, Feb 8 2016 11:50 PM

    "We all run some type of flash player on our PC's, generally via a browser plugin or standalone.  So we're all executing the same flash code with more or less the same flash plugin.  If it were Flash or WGT, it would happen to everybody (or a large subset of browser users, or flash version users).  Two people is not everybody, nor is it a qualified subset in this instance.

    All pre-swing action happens locally.  That means setting your aim, spin and executing the swing itself is all being executed on your PC, locally, with no intervention from WGT.  Aside from friend list updates which are sent to you from WGT, there is no communication from you to WGT until you attempt to strike the ball. This has been verified numerous times."

    This may be true to a degree, but had WGT not elected to fix the issues with any Flash applications in it's own design, then they are still beholden to the problem.  Not the Flash programs.

     A myriad of browsers are out there, I use FF with Adobe Flash, and find that if I get choppy, I can go to task mgr and kill of the extra Flash that uses little data, and reload the windows quickly for most if not all the rest of a game.  Why that occurs is beyond my knowledge.  I also use AdBlockerPlus to keep the ads away.

    But, with the resources at hand, I'd think that WGT could develop a platform much stabler than what is presently at hand.

    Knock

  • alosso
    21,069 Posts
    Tue, Feb 9 2016 12:57 AM

    For the records:

    While alossa may be female(?), I ain't.

  • Bohemian1
    690 Posts
    Tue, Feb 9 2016 3:04 AM

    Once again i have to say.........if it is a pc/flash issue...why is it only affecting my first putt, everything else is perfect....well as perfect as WGT allow's it to be lol

  • Bohemian1
    690 Posts
    Tue, Feb 9 2016 3:30 AM

    PhiEaglesFan:

    robertwalters:
    it's not my computer it's wgt

    It actually is your computer.

    We all run some type of flash player on our PC's, generally via a browser plugin or standalone.  So we're all executing the same flash code with more or less the same flash plugin.  If it were Flash or WGT, it would happen to everybody (or a large subset of browser users, or flash version users).  Two people is not everybody, nor is it a qualified subset in this instance.

    All pre-contact action happens locally.  That means setting your aim, spin and executing the swing itself is all being executed on your PC, locally, with no intervention from WGT.  Aside from friend list updates which are sent to you from WGT, there is no communication from you to WGT until you attempt to strike the ball. This has been verified numerous times.

    Proof?  You never know about a downtime or that you missed the tournament deadline until you hit the ball, because your computer isn't asking WGT if it's down.  Your PC only finds out the site is down because it tries to send over your shot data and WGT is like, "um, we're down, get that mess outta here".

    I recommend following alosso's advice.  He (she?) is correct.

    I should also add that when i say first putt, i don't mean my very first putt and every one after that is fine, i mean my first putt on every hole.

  • Robbo81303
    417 Posts
    Tue, Feb 9 2016 8:54 AM

    PhiEaglesFan:
    All pre-contact action happens locally.  That means setting your aim, spin and executing the swing itself is all being executed on your PC, locally, with no intervention from WGT.  Aside from friend list updates which are sent to you from WGT, there is no communication from you to WGT until you attempt to strike the ball. This has been verified numerous times.

    Complete utter nonsense!

    Last ball warnings are sent pre-contact.  Clash notices are sent pre-contact.  Game invites are sent pre-contact.  My meter is useless for at least 10 seconds after any of these appear.   For those without adblock, in-game ads are sent pre-contact.  If one's pre-round ad doesn't execute correctly, one can often hear audio from the ad well after their avatar appears on the tee and, in this case, I've had to wait several minutes for the meter to settle down.

    These are just the instances I'm aware of.  Heaven knows what other manner of gobbledeegook is being sent our way.  But, of course, since WGT always operates in an open, honest, and transparent fashion (insert gagging, coughing, & choking sounds here), we should believe everything they tell us regarding the meter.

    Hogwash!

    I often have a smooth, responsive meter at 100% CPU usage.  More often, I have a skipping, stuttering, unresponsive mess at less than 20%.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist - or an IT guy spewing drivel to the contrary - to ascertain that the vast majority of my meter issues are NOT on my end.  Thank you for your time.

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Tue, Feb 9 2016 8:58 AM

    Sorry Robbo, but that's completely wrong.  You can say hogwash all you want but that doesn't make what you said any more correct.

    All it takes is for one to open up the traffic tab on the browser's dev console to see that what I said is correct.  If you would please, show me your traffic logs that support your conclusion.

    You don't have proof to backup your claim? OK, here's mine then.

    Click the pictures for full-sized images.

    Here is the network traffic console during your initial load.  Look at all the goodness.  Male avatar parts, Chambers Bay photos among other things.

     

     

    Here's me on the tee after the initial load (I cleared all the traffic once everything loaded).  After about 20 seconds on the teebox I have two hits.  You can see those hits are .13KB.  That's not even a whole kilobyte.  That is one request from WGT to test to see if I'm still connected (or if I've closed my browser window) and it is absolutely necessary for that to happen, otherwise WGT doesn't know you disconnected. 

    You download MILLIONS of packets, make thousands of requests (outbox) and receive thousands of responses (inbox) a day while online. If your computer can't handle a stay-alive request, then you wouldn't even be able to get on the internet at all.

     

     

    And here I am again, still haven't hit the ball yet.  What's in the traffic console?  Still just a bunch of pings and two friends list updates.  The effect that pings and friend updates have on your PC is statistically insignificant.

     All WGT is saying for the stay-alive is, "hey, return this packet if you're still there" and your computer says "I'm here, don't drop me." 

    For the friend update, you are simply receiving updated friend data (such as someone going on or offline).

    Why is WGT sending friend data? It's easier for them to say, "here's a friends list update, take it" then it is for my PC to say, "hey you got a friend update for me?" at which point WGT has to respond with the data.  That's and extra request and is excess communication, so WGT instead just sends you the info periodically.  I want to say once a minute, but not 100% sure about that.

    Is the friend list thing absolutely necessary?  Eh, perhaps not.  They see it as necessary and it has worked like this since day one so I have to assume there is a reason for it.

    Anyway, that's all that's happening here.

     

     

    I cleared the console data again after that and now here I am in mid-swing.  What's in the traffic console?  Oh nothing, still just a bunch of pings.  I've swung the club through without hitting 3 times by this picture.  Nothing but more stay-alive pings.

     

     

    Cleared console again, waited a few moments.  Now here's a closer look at a friends list update.  Notice how there is now a 5KB communication between myself and WGT.  When we open up that response, what do we see?  GetBuddyList event.  Friends list update, initiated by WGT, which is what we expected.

     

     

    So after about 2-3 minutes on the tee I've been sent a total of about 10KB of information.  Have a look at my traffic now.  All necessary responses initiated by WGT, the majority of which are simple stay-alive pings with the occasional friend update or insignificant side event.   Nothing has been initiated by me yet.  This requires my computer only to respond to WGT.  If you believe 10 kilobytes (not megabytes, not gigabytes) of data is hurting your PC, then you simply don't know how this works at all.

     

     

    Here I am finally contacting the ball.  See the 3KB request the arrow is pointing at.  That's my shot data being sent to WGT.  Everything prior to that is stuff I've already showed you.

     

     

    Here's that response again once I landed in the fairway.  We open it, inspect it and what do we see?  HitBallE.  The hit ball event.  Nothing being sent to WGT until you actually hit the ball, as expected. 

    All communication comes from WGT to you and you just respond to them with a proper data packet.  All the stuff AFTER that shot data request are assets for the next shot.  You can  see I got a "Good Ball" comment and you can also see it loading the photo assets for my approach shot on this hole.

     

    With the exception of the stuff that was sent AFTER the ball strike, I RECEIVED less than 25KB of data during my pre-shot phase.  No one who knows anything about computers would dare claim 25KB of data is bogging down any modern system or causing any problems within the game.  That would be idiotic to say, and you would be pointed at and laughed at tremendously.

    Your "last ball" update occurs between shot loads and is then displayed once the load has completed. It does not occur during the pre-shot/contact phase (after you've loaded).  Will you also need a picture of that?

    So this is in fact the conclusive proof that what I said was correct in a complete context.  I guess it DOES take an IS guy to know what's going on.  It doesn't really, it just takes someone willing to learn a few basic tricks. 

    BTW, IT guys run your company network and configure your work PC's group policy.  IS guys like me work with websites, databases and understand how to read network traffic and the like.  There is a difference.

    Is the game perfect?  No.  Obviously.  They can try to optimize flash all day long, but it comes down to how Flash runs on your PC and your PC only.  Eight years in, WGT is about as optimized for Flash as it's gonna get. This is why the WGT App isn't Flash based.  Flash is old and it sucks, but it was probably the most popular online development software when WGT started in 2008.  HTML5 wasn't invented yet, so here we are today.

    So, this is why some people have good meters all the time, and some don't.  It all happens locally. My computer is 6 years old, using equally old hardware.  Very rare for me to see any problems that I can't fix by simply restarting the browser (this is where the No to "is the game perfect" came from).  There are still memory leaks and WGT does eff things up occasionally, but it gets fixed pretty quickly.

    I don't care much about CPU cycles or usage or any other such nonsense.  Your GPU is choking on Flash graphics and your CPU can't help it catch up enough to smooth it out..  This isn't your average hokey Flash Pac-Man game you find everywhere on the web.  This is a full-blown web application.

    Perhaps next time save us both the time and just believe me.  I don't make claims I'm not willing or unable to back up. 

  • Robbo81303
    417 Posts
    Tue, Feb 9 2016 9:14 AM

    PhiEaglesFan:
    Sorry Robbo.  You can say hogwash all you want but that doesn't make what you said any more correct.

    Perhaps not.  But it sure proves that what you portray as 'indisputable' is anything but.

  • PhiEaglesFan
    617 Posts
    Tue, Feb 9 2016 9:50 AM

    Robbo81303:
    But it sure proves that what you portray as 'indisputable' is anything but.

    There's the proof.  It confirms what I said, so it is absolutely indisputable.  Go read it and stop acting like you know something.  All you're doing is parroting the false mob mentality that plagues this game.  Otherwise known as ignorance. 

    That's fine.  This isn't your profession, so there's no reason for you to know this stuff.  But again, don't act like you do then bring zero facts to the table to backup your assertions.

    Like I said, you can see this all for yourself in your own browser console.

  • Robbo81303
    417 Posts
    Tue, Feb 9 2016 2:32 PM

    With all due respect, I'd like to see what happens when a last-ball warning or a friend invite appears, or, better yet, what the chatbox may do.  You may have 'proved' your assertion but I don't see anything to disprove mine.

  • Bohemian1
    690 Posts
    Wed, Feb 10 2016 4:36 AM

    And i still don't see a legitimate response to my question and i ask again, Why is it affecting my first putt on every whole only, surely the fact it is a constant suggests some sort of glitch. I am no expert in all this stuff, all i know is, i made Tour master....boom!!!, suddenly my irons started behaving erratically......i upgraded and it settled down. I made Legend and booom!!!, same trouble with irons again...again i upgraded and it settled down. Then the putter thing started so me in my simple layman way of thinking thought ok, get a new putter and it will be gone but still i have it. Every hole, every first putt, white line/ding no longer exists for me and again i will say, if it happened erratically i would accept a flash or some other pc issue, but it is a constant on this one shot only....WHY???

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