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If this isn't VEM I don't know what is!

• Noobingalltheway 222 Posts

  Sun, Feb 20 2011 10:33 AM

  Just played a round at St Andys front 9...here we go:

  Hole 2: 22 foot downhill birdie putt (from front of green, to the "easy" pin location) on very fast greens. Used 10 feet of power. The ball rolls 12 feet and stops dead HALFWAY down the hill. Second attempt, 4 inch downhill left, about 10 feet away, use 6 feet of power....it rolls 23 feet! End up with a double bogey

  Hole 6: 10 foot birdie putt, level with hole. 8 feet of power used, the ball shoots across the green and lands 10 feet past the hole!

  Hole 8: 161 yard tee shot, 18 mph cross-headwind (more head than cross)...so I use 160 yards of power and full bs. Ball travels 25 yards past the hole and lands at the back of the green (75 foot putt with 15 inch downhill left for me). Perfect. 

  So, why am I attributing this play to VEM? Well, VEM as you all know, kicks in when someone is playing really well to counteract any "slight" mistakes and multiply them massively, see my below ss of how well I actually was playing at the time...lets say if hole 2 had gone as it should, I coulda made par easily, hole 6 I think would have made birdie (it lipped out, my guess is just to do with the power) 

  The game actually had 4 people in it till 6th hole, the others dropped out, not because they were playing terribly, but because I was playing too well (the second of them quit after I made birdie putt from 30 feet, for the second time in the round) but my friend Asuzuki stayed to watch my 50 foot eagle putt :)

• AHudd 104 Posts

  Sun, Feb 20 2011 11:03 AM

  B/c you made a bird on the first hole "vem" kicked in?  The "vem" isnt kicked in when someone is playing well..its always there. Good thread to read about it here http://wgt.com/forums/t/8462.aspx?PageIndex=1  No one really complains when they miss the ding yet the shot seems to go straight towards where cursor is aimed or pretty close. It is frustrating when u ding a shot and it goes awry but it happens.  You really get the feel of it on the long par 3's from legend tees in low wind.  

• Noobingalltheway 222 Posts

  Sun, Feb 20 2011 12:18 PM

  No, AHudd, I don't believe that it kicked in after one birdie. I believe it has kicked in on me recently (I don't think VEM kicks in mid-round and leaves at the end, more it is a constant and once it kicks in, it kicks in till it sees you are unable to handle it, and then reduces).

  Just a quote that seems to verify my thoughts

  "If the skill level increases or decreases beyond a certain threshold, a change is communicated to the VEM 306, which in turn can communicate the change to the input model 302 and the representation 304."

   

   

• AHudd 104 Posts

  Sun, Feb 20 2011 12:36 PM

  The Vem is not goin to mess w/ your putting distances and/or alignment.  So your 3 putt on the 2nd had nothing to do w/ it . It would have happened to anyone w/ or w/o Vem.  The tough part is getting used to it.  But ball will never go exactly where it should b/c the precision on the clubs arent 100% anyways. Your par 3 shot could have been the beast..It doesnt come out much but when it does make sure you submit a bug report. 

• Noobingalltheway 222 Posts

  Sun, Feb 20 2011 1:44 PM

  Thanks for the replies, I appreciate your opinion but...something affected the putt - whether it was VEM or not I can't be sure but it has the trademarks of it

  But I've been playing the game long enough to know that a dinged putt with 10 feet of power goes at least 12 feet on Very Fast greens. Add into that a 10 inch downhill (total downhill was 14 inches, but 4 remained after the shot) and it should be hitting 20ft+ easily, not 12!

  Add to that my 10 foot second putt was hit with 6 feet of power and it went more like the distance I expected on the first putt, and you got something affecting my putts.

  Need convincing further, remember hole 6? No response on this one, but I used approx half power of my 15 foot scale club, yet it went 20 feet - no incline/decline whatsoever (bear in mind this also lipped so that will have taken out some of the power)

  Slightly OT, but has anyone else noticed differences in the green speeds lately?

  I played a TM yesterday, stroke play, and the tournament greens seemed to be playing slow. Three holes in a row landed just shy, so I decided to start playing as if they were my own greens, and the putts started sinking first time, every time. At first, I thought maybe its allowing me to use my own speed greens (though it said tournament). But today, two other people mentioned that the greens didn't seem fast enough in separate games, and both are TP (who use the same green speed as I do)

• VanHalenLover 1,422 Posts

  Sun, Feb 20 2011 4:03 PM

  AHudd:

  The "vem" isnt kicked in when someone is playing well..its always there.

  I think it makes real time adjustments, but I also believe that it does in fact make results more unpredictable when someone is having 'one of those rounds'

  I've also never considered that it just might be affected by others dropping from the game, and perhaps it adjusts specifically to who is left in the game?

   

   

• AHudd 104 Posts

  Sun, Feb 20 2011 5:15 PM

  I Havent really noticed a change in the game if ive birdied the first 5 or made par the first 5 holes.  A ding usually ends up pretty nice if you have all the math correct and if u miss ding then its kinda up in the air where it'll go no matter how well your goin in the round. Gotta let it roll of your back though b/c everyone has to deal w/ it.  I like having it though in the long run b/c if someone has a auto ding program shots will never be spot on.

• b0geybuster 2,574 Posts

  Sun, Feb 20 2011 5:23 PM

  In my experience, 99.99% of all shots can be explained by a players own errors.  Yes VEM exists, but it doesn't follow you around and prey on you when you are shooting well.

  So have I avoided VEM, or the likes of what is believed to be VEM, no absolutely not, I do have the occasional shot where I look and go what just happened, but they are far between, and usually occur only on Kiawah.   

  Believe what you may Noob, but you barely got your feet wet when it comes to playing this game.    In my experience, the more I play the more I realize all the mistakes made are caused by myself and a wrong putter scale, wrong shot type, wrong read of a putt, wrong iron, and if you miss the ding, you open a whole new can of worms.   

  Good Luck out there!!!

  Cheers,

  b0gey

   

• Soulcatcher 1,970 Posts

  Mon, Feb 21 2011 5:09 AM

  b0geybuster:

  In my experience, 99.99% of all shots can be explained by a players own errors.  Yes VEM exists, but it doesn't follow you around and prey on you when you are shooting well.

  So have I avoiding VEM, or the likes of what is believed to be VEM, no absolutely not, I do have the occasional shot where I look and go what just happened, but they are far between, and usually occur only on Kiawah.   

  Believe what you may Noob, but you barely got your feet wet when it comes to playing this game.    In my experience, the more I play the more I realize all the mistakes made are caused by myself and a wrong putter scale, wrong shot type, wrong read of a putt, wrong iron, and if you miss the ding, you open a whole new can of worms.   

  Good Luck out there!!!

  Cheers,

  b0gey

   

  That may be the most intelligent thing I have read in the forums in a long time.

  Good work b0gey

• Noobingalltheway 222 Posts

  Mon, Feb 21 2011 3:41 PM

  I wouldn't really call insulting someone as intelligent. Yes, it is insulting that you think after hundreds of matches I have only just started playing and don't know how a shot should act...

  I may not have played thousands of rounds as you have, but with over 250 ranked stroke play, over 100 A/S, about 50 MP and lots of CTTH, not to mention all the practice stroke plays I've done, I'm probably close to 500 games completed, which I think most will agree, is enough to know when things just aren't right...

  JMO, others may differ