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Solve the "quiters" problem.

• thunderbird 381 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 6:47 AM

  People quit on this games for all type of reasons.  Only one reason would bother me.  That would be to keep their averages higher.  There called sand baggers and as golf professional this is the one there is no control for.  I have no problem with people keeping their handicaps low.  They lose out all the time.  But many quit on this game to stay in the pro tier so that have a chance to win the prizes.  If people are quitting because they are shooting bad because they want to get their average lower so they can buy the master tier equipment more power to them.  It ultimately means more money for WGT and better stuff for us because the more money WGT makes the more they will do to improve the game.  Wooohoooo, that makes me excited.  So keep quitting and if you get started in a foursome just let them know you are quitter so the disclosure is there.  Maybe WGT should add the small print under each persons name with a little disclosure, "this person is likely to quit so before starting this round you may want to consider the side effects of playing.  Symptoms include bitterness, envy, hatred, frustration, and the possibility even very small of a finished round."

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 6:54 AM

  You're forgetting, marioh, that the proposal is to give each player the option: either finish your round (even if later on!), or accept a small penalty instead. So, it would be up to you if you want to accept the penalty for quitting or not.

  If you experience computer problems, etc. etc., you could wait until after your computer issues are fixed, and then decide either to finish the round or accept the penalty. The choice would be up to you and you only.

  There should be no automatic penalty for disconnections, because it's difficult or impossible to distinguish legitimate disconnections from wilful ones. However, the WGT server gives everyone the option to resume their most recent interrupted ranked round later on, and if you refuse to do that, you should be penalized. That, I believe, is the best way out of this quitters mess.

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 7:23 AM

  I completely understand where you're coming from Faterson (picking up where you left off in SP).

  Regarding the swing meter issues, I've played in many MP games where I try to put up with swing meter issue with the delusional hope that it will get better (it never does).   So I end up playing multiple holes where I may as well be swinging with my eyes closed because the swing meter is so erratic.   If I or others quit that game under those conditions, I don't see any valid reason for being penalized due to it (continuing the game in SP mode is not an option since multiple strokes were added to your score due to the swing meter issues).

  Now, the good thing is with the recent changes, we can finally play unranked MP rounds (which has been asked for for a long, long time now).   I'm hoping that with this change, it should reduce some of the quitting issues.   I'm also hopeful that more people will take advantage of the unranked MP rounds and will stick around after poor shots/holes.

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 7:59 AM

  marioh:

  continuing the game in SP mode is not an option since multiple strokes were added to your score due to the swing meter issues

  Ah, come on! That's the same as if a real-life golfer said, "I can't possibly continue in this tournament, because a few raindrops obstructed my view on a few holes, and a fly shat on my nose at the moment when I was teeing off." Those kinds of things simply happen, period. The same with the "beast" and unpredictable deviations in this game. Those are no legitimate reasons not to finish your ranked round, or accept a small penalty instead. The choice would be up to you.

  Remember, we're talking about small penalties for quitters, meant as deterrent more than anything else. Accepting a few penalties here and there would be a matter of little importance, but the deterrent itself might reduce the amount of quitters significantly.

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 9:50 AM

  The swing meter stutter is not even close to being the same as the examples you listed.

  In fact, I'm not even sure you know what I'm talking about.   A more accurate example would be while you're in the middle of your swing, someone comes along and grabs your club in mid swing, and then kicks your ball.    Would you play that kicked ball?   Of course not.

   

  Remember, as proven by my average, I don't really care about average.   What I do care about is making up some penalty system that penalizes people due to Flash sucking (I'm still amazed at how well the game does play despite Flash, which is a huge credit to the Flash programmers that work for WGT).

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 11:30 AM

  There is no "Quiters" problem.  Quitting doesn't matter.  Get over it. 

  If I'm in an unlimited play tourney and I bogey 1 and 2, you're damned right I'm gonna quit it.  That's MY decision and I will be restarting to do better.  It's not about protecting my ranking or my average, it's about wasting my bloody time with a score that I know will be utter crap.  I would NEVER accept a penalty for quitting single-player games.  In single play tourneys, the fact that you have forfieted your chance to finish is your penalty.  And you want to add to that?  Let me re-iterate:

  I WILL NEVER  ACCEPT A QUITTING PENALTY FOR SINGLE-PLAYER GAMES.

  That's akin to forcing people to play, and that will not do under any circumstances.

  Lets boil this down to it's main point.

  THE ONLY REASON THE VOCAL MINORITY IS UPSET AT QUITTING IS BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS QUIT IN A MULTI-PLAYER GAME FOR ONE OF 4 REASONS:

  1. THEY ARE PROTECTING AN AVERAGE
  2. THEY ARE FRUSTRATED AT PLAYING BADLY AND DON'T WISH TO BE THERE
  3. SOMETHING HAPPENED (IRL) THAT MADE THEM LEAVE THE GAME
  4. THEIR COMPUTER CRASHED / SWING METER FAILING
  5. SOME PLAYERS FIND OUT THAT THEIR PLAYING PARTNERS ARE REALLY JUST TOOLS AND HAVE TO LEAVE.

   

  #1 and #2 can be mitigated slightly by imposing a small penalty FOR MULTI-PLAYER ROUNDS ONLY.  #3, #4 and #5 if offered a small penalty, will probably continue the round, but that does not solve the problem of the group falling apart.

  Or better yet, and has been suggested AD-NAUSEUM on these forums, remove all Multi-player rounds from the ranking system.

  Oh yea.. and play with friends.   You have to expect pick-up games to fall apart.  If you don't, you are delusional.  Qutting happens, get over it!

   

  **Edit... added #5 above.   I would try to explain, but ....

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 11:35 AM

  The threads complaining about quitters primarily revolve around multi player games.

  Luckily, we now have the option to play unranked multi player rounds (and 18 holes too!!#!), and I hope that this will reduce the frequency of these threads.

  I played a nice 18 hole unranked game with a new player last night.   I really like the new MP options.

• scoresby 158 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 12:39 PM

  I too had an opportunity to play  a newcomer yesterday.  It was his first game.  He lasted 3 1/2 holes, then took out a 3 wood and slammed it straight at me from the 4th green.  It was his 7th stroke...lol

  Then disconnected.  Maybe this game's too hard.?  Was it something I said?

  Was he not provided the WGT etiquette manual when he joined?  Should he have been punished for embarrassing himself?

  Ludicrous.

  When joining random groups, the participant selection over which you have little or no control, it's  not wise to expect everyone in the group to complete the round; it's likely they just don't know and don't care, and don't finish.

  Some of these people just don't love and respect the traditions of the game as many of us do.  They might never have had a chance to learn them.  Maybe some of these people have never played real golf, don't have a clue what etiquette is, or what it means to honor an invitation, and simply could not care less what you or I think.

  Join a ladder group, stay away from random groups, and you'll be a happier golfer.

  Cheers,

   

   

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 1:58 PM

  As has been said many times, if WGT chooses to forfeit penalties for unfinished ranked single-player rounds, that is perfectly OK. Stop beating a strawman, Snaike.

  Snaike:

  #1 and #2 can be mitigated slightly by imposing a small penalty

  I believe they can be mitigated significantly, by implementing one or several of those small penalties.

  Snaike:

  There is no "Quiters" problem.  Quitting doesn't matter.  Get over it.

  There is a huge quitters problem, as evidenced by all these recurring threads. Quitting does matter. Get over it. You remind me of someone soaked in rain, screaming at the top of his voice, "Oh, all the wonderful sunshine! The weather is just heavenly!" Repatedly saying that a problem doesn't exist, when it does, won't make it go away.

  I also forgot to mention last time that Thunderbird's analogy with real-life quitting doesn't really work. On a real golf course, you can't quit a round with your partners 3 times within 15 minutes, or get transferred from hole 4 to hole 1 within seconds in order to join (and sabotage!) yet another multi-player round. That is, however, what frequently happens here.

• Snaike 3,678 Posts

  Fri, Aug 14 2009 2:21 PM

  Faterson:

  Snaike:

  #1 and #2 can be mitigated slightly by imposing a small penalty

  I believe they can be mitigated significantly, by implementing one or several of those small penalties.

  Ok, if you believe so... I have to ask you:  Are you prepared to accept any of those penalties for others quitting, Faterson?  You have stated many times and in many threads that you do not wish to play alone or with just 1 other when the balance of your foursome disintegrates.  What do you do?  Continue all the way to the end?  By yourself? 

  Or would you accept the penalty for not finishing the round?  By CHOICE because your playing partners abandoned you.

  No, Faterson, there is no quitting problem.  Again, the vocal minority may have the forums ear, so to speak, but the game player base as a whole does not care about quitting.

  I would much rather see the engineers work on:

  1. Practice facilities
  2. Elimination of CHEATERS, LIARS and FRAUDS
  3. Deviation mitigation %
  4. Different Pins for existing courses
  5. Different Courses for Stroke play
  6. More stable Flash base
  7. etc etc etc etc

        1001. Players quitting in Multi-player rounds.

  No matter how vehemently you protest... quitting does not matter.  It is here to stay.  Get over it, Don Quixote.  Have Sancho carry your bags and just enjoy the day.